[Any] D&D: The Saturday Morning Cartoon, can it work?

[Argentis]

Hi guys, I'm trying to figure stuff out to convert my weekly game to a monthly format (not by choice). I've done some reading and self-contained adventures seem to be the way to go.
Now with that in mind, I was thinking that a format like most cartoons use where there is one villain who is trying to take over the world or something every week, and the heroes foil them, but the villain gets away to try something new next week. Do you think this could work in a monthly D&D game? Or would it get annoying and old quickly?

Thanks,
Argentis

[hexgrid]

I think the biggest issue would be having the villain get away. In D&D, a villain's first encounter with the PCs is usually his last, and (unlike cartoon protagonists,) the PCs will do everything they can to prevent escape.

[red_artifice]

I'd suggest you look at the chatty dm, www.chattydm.net. he splits his campaigns in to seasons, a similar concept.

[ArcTan]

Physically confronting the same bad guy every week and having him magically escape is a bit much. Having the same bad guy be *behind* all the evil plots you're foiling and leaving him as a big question mark so that it's super-dramatic when you actually find out who he is and confront him tends to go over better. (More "serious" Saturday morning cartoons tend to use this format; David Xanatos became a legendary figure on TV Tropes because of how many Gargoyles fans there are there.)

[Lewd Beholder]

it did work

I was watching the dnd cartoon dvd anthology and what impressed me most of all was how dynamic the storytelling was for an 80's cartoon.

Eric impressed the hell out of me going from a spoiled rich kid to a hero in his own right over 2 seasons.

plus hearing the final episode as a radio play helped tie up the series into a neat little package.

and how many dvd collections do we get to see tiamat animated :)

If dnd the movie would have been a repackaging of this animated cartoon, I would be a happy man :)

********************************
If your trying to do a dnd game like that...this pretty much would be required watching.

have one super big bad, several key minions (at varying levels) and a guide npc to setup the premises.

also realize that when they finally meet the big bad, have a contingency for when they kill him.

A long time ago a buddy had a 2nd level dragonlance game that was extremely well done, but we kept killing his big bad :D

perhaps the villian is immortal and while he can be killed, he will come back until they assemble the pieces of a mighty artifact that will destroy his immortality.

[Owesome]

It's a fantastic idea. Samurai Jack and Inspector Gadget also strike me as shows where the Big Bad was more behind the scenes but omnipresent.

You might also want to consider having the PCs level-up as dramatically appropriate, so they don't have to wait yonks for all the yummy stuff higher levels can bring.

[Argentis]

For sure, if I can make this work, the PCs will be levelling up every 2-3 sessions. I'm still mulling over what edition I want to run this at. Part of me wants to head into 4e, but another part (roughly the same as the first) wants to stay with 3e for awhile yet.

[Demongg]

...one villain who is trying to take over the world or something every week, and the heroes foil them, but the villain gets away ...


My first thought would be your timing and making it feel fun/right.
The thing that seems to happen in RPG combat (with the big bad villain) is that the PCs GET to him quickly and kill him quickly. I'd say that if you can always manage to have the villain escape EARLY but at the same time really give a feel of his "control" of the battlefield (and plot) then you can do it.

In initiative terms... You might have the big bad stay 1-3 rounds (max) having each of his rounds be epic in having him talk a BIG game about his plans, or how febble the heroes are...... so much so that he can/must leave to continue or begin his end-game.
In his "actions" for those rounds have him buffing his minions for the first couple, then maybe throw out a big blast on one or more of the PCs to show his power before splitting.

I think you can do this IF it just doesn't always seem like a retreat for the bad guy (gotta retain his cred) or a cop-out "gotcha" to the players by removing their "prize" (ie. getting to kill the big bad) everytime.

Make his entrances and exits piss them off (in character) and perhaps give them hints at the overall plot in his villain monologues.

Plus have some tough minions and Lts. that the PCs can get a good win with as the big bad moves on.


Hmmmm, I've never tried this as much - but I'm liking the idea of it. I may give it a shot!
thanks!

-kev-

[Argentis]

Yeah, I think I'll be leaning towards the lots of henchman idea. I can see having the big bad escaping more than a few times getting annoying. Hmmm, I guess I know what I'm doing this Saturday :D (it's too bad my daughter's not older, I could just get ideas from her).

[Lewd Beholder]

For sure, if I can make this work, the PCs will be levelling up every 2-3 sessions. I'm still mulling over what edition I want to run this at. Part of me wants to head into 4e, but another part (roughly the same as the first) wants to stay with 3e for awhile yet.

The big thing will be what sort of game do the players want to play.

If they are spellcaster heavy, go 3rd, and allow book of 9 swords for the non spellcasting types

if they more are fighty types and like playing nonhumans, go 4th.


edit: and another series that's a must for cribbing gaming ideas is aladdin the series.

[DeadwoodHood]

***My first thought would be your timing and making it feel fun/right.
The thing that seems to happen in RPG combat (with the big bad villain) is that the PCs GET to him quickly and kill him quickly. I'd say that if you can always manage to have the villain escape EARLY but at the same time really give a feel of his "control" of the battlefield (and plot) then you can do it.

In initiative terms... You might have the big bad stay 1-3 rounds (max) having each of his rounds be epic in having him talk a BIG game about his plans, or how febble the heroes are...... so much so that he can/must leave to continue or begin his end-game.
In his "actions" for those rounds have him buffing his minions for the first couple, then maybe throw out a big blast on one or more of the PCs to show his power before splitting.

I think you can do this IF it just doesn't always seem like a retreat for the bad guy (gotta retain his cred) or a cop-out "gotcha" to the players by removing their "prize" (ie. getting to kill the big bad) everytime.

Make his entrances and exits piss them off (in character) and perhaps give them hints at the overall plot in his villain monologues.

Plus have some tough minions and Lts. that the PCs can get a good win with as the big bad moves on.****


* Also, talk to your players. The "suspension of disbelief" and irritability go WAY down when you talk to them outright about the concept. Tell them you want to run it like an old Saturday morning cartoon, a la G.I Joe, where the main bad guy can usually get away, while leaving his subordinates to die, be captured, what have you.

I ran a 3.5 game one weekend based completely on old school zombie movies.. infectious zombie bites, locking the PCs in the general store, the whole nine yards. I told them before hand what I was gunning for, and they all helped out to create the atmosphere... the fighter even hid the fact that he had been bitten during a grapple, thus creating the zombie danger.. he was only healed by a quick thinking cleric with Cure Disease. The whole party excitedly ran out to rescue the village blacksmith who was escorting two young children to the "safety" of the General Store and was covered in bites... they thoughtfully draped a sheet over him when he died of his wounds, and were properly horrified when he animated to attempt to eat his until-recently-protected charges.

The point Im getting at is... let the players in on a bit of your vision, and if they enjoy the concept, they will help more than ANY game mechanic or plot device can. Everyone KNEW the blacksmith would become a zombie, though their characters didn't know yet... they KNEW that the zombies would somehow manage to break into the General Store, engendering the endgame panicked flight through the streets pursued by a veritable horde of the walking dead... heck, they even KNEW that the reason the zombies were alive in the first place was a whacked out formula from the crazy village alchemist. But they WANTED to play in it, so they took to the cliche roles to make it happen. That one-off game was run 4 years ago, and the players STILL talk about it every once in a while.

[Morgenstern]

I admit I looked in on this thread because I thought it might involved 4E-ifying the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon series:D.

[Alvin Frewer]

Physically confronting the same bad guy every week and having him magically escape is a bit much. Having the same bad guy be *behind* all the evil plots you're foiling and leaving him as a big question mark so that it's super-dramatic when you actually find out who he is and confront him tends to go over better.

Yes, this. It was often this way even for He-Man, at least what I recall. He didn't face Skeletor every episode, but he was always behind it. Same for Cobra Commander.

But I don't recall a recurring villain in the D&D Cartoon except for Tiamat. But wasn't she mostly "Run away!" instead of an actual fight? It can be fun to do that sparingly, make getting to safety a skill challenge. Other times, the bad guy might have an excuse to leave and let the underlings finish the job. Most of the time, they work behind the scenes. And very rarely, they are not involved, or even there is a threat that requires the PCs to work with the bad guy!

The Filmation shows (He-Man, She-Ra, Ghostbusters (not the movie based ones)) and Rankin-Bass's Thundercats, Silverhawks, and Tigersharks, as well as Bionic-6 are all "good" cartoons that I recall to research into ways to do it that might be interesting.

[Gnomick]

If you do this, will you narrate scenes that the PCs aren't in? Saturday morning cartoons often open by showing the villains scheming, or attacking innocent people, or just being evil. The heros aren't in these scenes for obvious reasons, but they're important for moving the plot along quickly and hooking the viewer in.

[Semah]

But I don't recall a recurring villain in the D&D Cartoon except for Tiamat. But wasn't she mostly "Run away!" instead of an actual fight?



http://chris2fer.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/venger.jpg


Forget Venger, will you? You will pay for your impudence!

[Alvin Frewer]

Forget Venger, will you? You will pay for your impudence!

Wow. Even seeing the picture, and having you tell me the name, it's a complete blank.

I guess I was too busy drooling over a bow that fired energy arrows.

[Morgenstern]

*snicker* you mean "The bow that can do anything but damage." Seriously. Snarea whole groups in one shot. Create stuning flashes of light on impact. It even builds bridges over chasms and drills for water in the desert! But not once did it do even a single HP of damage. Ever.

I was too busy drooling over a redhead in thigh-high boots and a miniskirt :p.