[WoW Advice] Back and Sucking...

[SeekerJST]

So, due to moving, I had to take a 2 month break from WoW, I'm starting to slowly ease back in, and I'm finding that I'm doing bottom of the barrel dps in my guild's raids, which is frustrating, because I used to be much, much better.
Currently this is my main: Guede (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shandris&n=Guede)
Now, I know much of my raid is getting tier 9 gear, so I'm not expecting to get back into the top dps range until I can acquire some of my own. (Although I admit, I'm still fuzzy on how one goes about acquiring tier 9). But I'm wondering if I should go back to a Unholy reaping build rather than blood or the ten second Unholy rotation, since my current gear is tier 8 and give a bonus for scourge strike... and what low hanging fruit I should be shooting for in the gear department?

:confused:

[davidb]

Your gear is pretty decent even for a 2 month break. Definitely Ulduar quality.

Sadly, the only way to upgrade will be to get yourself into weekly ToC and Onyxia runs. Do both 10 and 25 man version; they're fairly easy (definitely PUGable) so long as you're not doing hard mode. If you can get your hands on some crusader orbs, there's some very nice craftable BoE recipes for DPS plate.

I can't speak to Blood talents and rotations, but Blood is still the best single target DPS spec for DKs.

[IceShadow]

You get Tier 9 from tokens and Triumph badges. The 10-man Tier 9 (called just Tier 9) costs straight badges for your gear. 25-man Tier 9 (called Tier 9.5) takes badges + trophies. Trophies are the same for every slot for every class and drop from the 25-man bosses on normal 25-man ToC. 25-man heroic gear (called Tier 9.9) drops as more traditional per-class per-slot tokens from heroic 25-man, I believe.

[Fenris]

Re: Blood the best single target-I think that is fairly accurate-I'm blood myself and can pull some redonk numbers...and honestly 2 months ago the rotation is rather similar. HS is your bread and butter strikes, Death Strike activate your deathrunes and some nice procs once you get some better gear, DC is your runic dump, IT/PS of course for diseases, time DRW with the use of cds and procs for best results. I use Dark Death/Death Strike/DRW for glyphs.

BUT, these days a whole lot of the DPS DKs around our server seem to be Unholy or Frost mainspecs, so those are also likely worth looking into. I'm still figuring out which one i want as my offspec. Despite blood seemingly having the best single target, F or U seem to offer things that gets folks toward them.

[SeekerJST]

Re: Blood the best single target-I think that is fairly accurate-I'm blood myself and can pull some redonk numbers...and honestly 2 months ago the rotation is rather similar. HS is your bread and butter strikes, Death Strike activate your deathrunes and some nice procs once you get some better gear, DC is your runic dump, IT/PS of course for diseases, time DRW with the use of cds and procs for best results. I use Dark Death/Death Strike/DRW for glyphs.

BUT, these days a whole lot of the DPS DKs around our server seem to be Unholy or Frost mainspecs, so those are also likely worth looking into. I'm still figuring out which one i want as my offspec. Despite blood seemingly having the best single target, F or U seem to offer things that gets folks toward them.

I feel like I'm doing less dps as blood then as unholy right now (And I don't think highly of my blood dps) Is there something I can change aside from switching over to the DRW glyph. Should I regem? Look to get another sigil asap?

[Fenris]

Well, one thing about Blood is that it is, from what I know, the most gear-dependent of the three specs, relying the heaviest on pure physical damage than the other two. I mean you can't slack on gear for any of them(or any class for that manner), but...I kinda looked at it like our warrior; when he was lower geared he chose Arms spec for raids; after he got higher levels, he switched back to Fury.

Your gear is very good now, but compared to the gear that's out(and what the other DKs might be wearing by now), it's lower.

1, youre hitcapped, I'd try to get Expertise capped too(26.)
2, your glyph of Unholy Blight is doing nothing in your blood spec at the moment. Get DRW.
3, this won't really help your DPS but I kind of prefer that point you have in Imp. Blood Presence(which I find more tanky) in Rune Tap for some fast self-healing if necessary. Pure utility.
4, Blood likes Armor Penetration. I don't gem for it(I gem for Strength-but in gemming sometimes people have preferences. I know some Blood Knights who actually prefer gemming for ArmPen. IMO-personal taste. I know some Warriors who are the same-2 arms warriors in our server's top Horde guild gem much like that, one for armor pen, one for Strength.) I'd test them to see what you like. Gemming for Crit isn't to necessary for a DK(though I do have a couple Str/Crit gems mixed in, and I don't ignore the stat; in fact I use a combo of Deadly Strikes elixirs with Armor Pen food, or vice versa.) Crit is a great stat but I don't think it should be priority gemmed for.
5. You can get a Sigil of the Vengeful Heart for a mere 19 Conquest Emblems, so I'd go for that ASAP. The 25-Triumph one I am using at the moment is fantastic, but IMO, there are better things to buy first with Triumph. Vengeful Heart increases DC damage(used heavily as Blood and it's used in Unholy as well), so it will give a nice boost, and it also increases Frost Strike damage if you play around there(in other words, it increases the damage of your Runic Dumps.)

All that said, at your gear level(again, it's good!) I'd maybe give Unholy a test run in raids and see if it's an improvent unitl you get the current tier of gear. We actually have a DK who came back from summer break who is in a similar gearlevel(actually a bit lower), who is doing very respectable DPS as Unholy at the moment. Of course, that's if you enjoy Unholy, don't force yourself to play a spec you don't like. If you don't have a preference I'd give it a whirl. All three specs do great DPS, as shown in some of our top guilds who have a variety of DPS DKs in there.

As for raid buffs, if you're caster-heavy they'll love you as Unholy, if you're physical heavy they'll likely love you as Blood or Frost, the latter if they lack an Enhancement shaman.

[TheGrog]

Your gear is dragging you down substantially, unless your guild has made few ToC clears since their first Anub kill back at 9-10-09. However, I can't really tell where all the ToC loot went. If you could point out who does do top dps that would help. You have too many sub 226 items when almost anybody can have 232 and 245 items out of normal mode ToC runs.

Visit Elitist Jerks for the most recent spec and best gear lists. Their DK forum is very up to day and well organized.

You should probably buy the dps sigil for 25 badges when you can and after that replace Ruthlessness with one of the badge dps rings for pure ilvl, then stay away from the badge only tier pieces. Attend Onyxia, Emalon, and every ToC trip (potentially 4 per week) you can manage. ToC 10 man and 25 man normal difficulty are puggable.

You may wish to pay for the new crafted Titanium Razor-something bracer, but it won't be cheap.

[Fenris]

I actually liked getting the tier pieces with my Triumph badges. I found the 4-pc to be amazing, and I didn't have much else to buy with Triumphs-I got the ring, the sigil, and that's it besides the t9 pieces. IMO that bonus is too nice to skip, but that's just me. I learned not to risk tier pieces on the whims of Emalon. I was suited up in t9 as soon as I could be. Besides, even if you clear TotC-25 every week, as far as I know they only drop the Trophies, which you still need emblems to get.

I use 4/5 though, and the Titanium Razorplate/Titanium Spikeguards. The two together, however, will run you a whopping 18 Titansteel Bars and 12 Crusader Orbs.(10/8 for the chest, 8/4 for the wrists, plus extra mats-the chest needs 4 Deadly Saronite Dirks and the wrists a set of Vengeance Bindings.)

[TheGrog]

I meant the tier items that don't require trophy + badges; the badge-only 232 items. By this point I imagine most guilds are glutted with trophys from 25 normal. If trophys are still hotly contested in your guild, that skews things.

But you are still spending a lot of badges that way. If you are just starting to collect Triumphs the 4 piece will run you about a month of raid triumph trips. Buying the 232 shoulder might be a decent idea, after the ring and sigil of course, since that's also a 213 piece.

I'd also highly suggest a Greatness card, since I'm pretty sure the 10m dps trinket sucks. Maybe the Titanium Razorplate BP, since it is unlikely that you'll see regalias soon.

[IceShadow]

I meant the tier items that don't require trophy + badges; the badge-only 232 items. By this point I imagine most guilds are glutted with trophys from 25 normal. If trophys are still hotly contested in your guild, that skews things.

I think you're pretty wrong. Keep in mind that most guilds can't do TotGC-25. 5 trophies per week = 25 weeks to kit out 25 people, given full clears. And most casual guilds would have a stable of 50-75 people to kit out.

[SeekerJST]

Well, I've upgraded my sigil, and redid my gear so that I was at 25 expertise, and got a speed enchant for my boots. We'll see how that does tonight.

[Mengtzu]

I think you're pretty wrong. Keep in mind that most guilds can't do TotGC-25. 5 trophies per week = 25 weeks to kit out 25 people, given full clears. And most casual guilds would have a stable of 50-75 people to kit out.


We're almost ready to give trophies to offspec, and we don't have that many TotGC kills under our belts. Remember that going 4/5 is pretty common, Koralon drops help, and TotGC-10 is fairly accessible.

The underlying question is how common big casual alliances are vs single-raid guilds. I don't really know!

[IceShadow]

We're almost ready to give trophies to offspec, and we don't have that many TotGC kills under our belts. Remember that going 4/5 is pretty common, Koralon drops help, and TotGC-10 is fairly accessible.

The underlying question is how common big casual alliances are vs single-raid guilds. I don't really know!

I dunno. We've been clearing everything we possibly can with the exception of one week of Beasts, one week of Jaraxxus, and about 2-3 weeks of Anub, so that's ... 5 trophies we could've had that we don't. And I have gotten two trophies, total, and I'm at every raid we do, so I'm fairly sure that no one has gotten more than two for our group.

[Mengtzu]

One thing that was suggested in our guild (but never acted on, sadly) was to run ToC normal twice, splitting mains between the runs and filling up with alts. More trophies, trinkets, weapons etc for mains, and less sharded loot. Assuming you're clearing the place without much trouble, that could be a good strategy for casual raids.

[TheGrog]

I think you're pretty wrong. Keep in mind that most guilds can't do TotGC-25. 5 trophies per week = 25 weeks to kit out 25 people, given full clears. And most casual guilds would have a stable of 50-75 people to kit out.

50 people should mean 2 raid groups. I mean, this place is puggable after all. Few people wear all 5 pieces, some only wear two. His guild in particular got a 25m clear the second week Anub was accessable, and I'm pretty sure I saw some 10m heroic items. This likely means 9 trophies per week, possibly more, although I didn't see Insanity on the guild leader.

[TheGrog]

One thing that was suggested in our guild (but never acted on, sadly) was to run ToC normal twice, splitting mains between the runs and filling up with alts. More trophies, trinkets, weapons etc for mains, and less sharded loot. Assuming you're clearing the place without much trouble, that could be a good strategy for casual raids.

We started that quite a while ago. Works pretty well, as it doesn't take many dps mains in 245 gear to carry noobs along so long as they don't stand in fire. Which, being alts of raiders, they shouldn't. Checking armory you have the standard specs and glyphs, should just be a matter of gear and getting back into play reflexes. DKs still top the (often perfectly stratified by color) charts in my guild, and I think we're fairly representative these days.

[IceShadow]

50 people should mean 2 raid groups. I mean, this place is puggable after all. Few people wear all 5 pieces, some only wear two. His guild in particular got a 25m clear the second week Anub was accessable, and I'm pretty sure I saw some 10m heroic items. This likely means 9 trophies per week, possibly more, although I didn't see Insanity on the guild leader.

No, 50 people who play not often enough means you have 25 people on at any given time and 50 people who cycle through it. Trust me, casual raiding is different. :)

[TheGrog]

I'll be honest, I don't understand that.

[SeekerJST]

I'll be honest, I don't understand that.

you don't get all of the people at your raid night, only most. (say 15+) so you need to rotate through a stable of regulars and semi regulars to fill the raid.

We probably have about 35-40 active raiders at any given time.

[wolfgangvonbek]

It's worth considering 2 weapon frost, unless you have a a lot of enhancement shamans its a lot easier to get your hands on 2 Ilevel 245 slow 1 hand weapons than 1 dual-bladed butcher.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&n=Petervonbek

even with my poor gear (and cheap gems and enchants) I'm almost always near the top of the dps meter.

[IceShadow]

I'll be honest, I don't understand that.

We have a lot of players who only raid 3-4 times a month. Zero-sum DKP, so they'll end up with some of the gear, like trophies. Not as much as people who raid all the time, but they get their fair share of things too. :)

[TheGrog]

I'm just having trouble grasping the attendance rates and windows that would prevent you from running one 25 man on, say, thursday and another on sunday despite filling with alts from the high attendance people but still let you run a single trip at a semi-regular day of the week.

Or do you not allow alts in ToC?

[SeekerJST]

So yesterday was slightly better:

http://www.silentspirits.org/images/warcraft/yogg_reviction.jpg

:D

That was a whirlwind raid! Did ToC to start, went in to Ulduar to try on Yogg again, since we've never been able to kill him... AND DID IT ON THE VERY FIRST TRY! It was unbelievable. So we finished up the night with Onyxia and VoA. Monday we start Grand Crusader.

More seriously, I moved up a bit, went from being around 13th in dps to around 10. (peaked on Onyxia at 6th, but that was a rather extreme exception.)

Also managed to get some gear upgrades:
Sigil from badges
Band of the Violent Temperment (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46966) and Legguards of Ascension (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47121) from ToC and the Tier 8.5 shoulders from Yogg (which was convenient as it allowed me to retain the 4 set bonus and use the Legguards.
Guede after last night (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shandris&n=Guede)

[IceShadow]

I'm just having trouble grasping the attendance rates and windows that would prevent you from running one 25 man on, say, thursday and another on sunday despite filling with alts from the high attendance people but still let you run a single trip at a semi-regular day of the week.

Or do you not allow alts in ToC?

We run raids three nights a week: One to do ToC-25, one to do ToC-10, and one to do harder things like Ulduar hard-modes. We've never even considered or tried running a second raid night in the same instance, splitting mains between them and running with alts the other night; it's something that would require a massive amount of coordination to try and organize.

EDIT: In any case, I have no idea how casual the OP's guild is, so they may be dripping in trophies from organizing like you say...and honestly, that kind of organization didn't even occur to me before this thread. So I may be way off, and maybe we're the last person to hear about splitting ToC like this. :D But even if we did split it, all it would do is gear up alts quicker...because they'd be getting trophies too.

[bv728]

I'm just having trouble grasping the attendance rates and windows that would prevent you from running one 25 man on, say, thursday and another on sunday despite filling with alts from the high attendance people but still let you run a single trip at a semi-regular day of the week.

Or do you not allow alts in ToC?

We run Mon-Weds right now. We used to have sunday - people just didn't show up. We tried scheduling additional 10 man runs - we have one latenight run which is achieve/hardmodes, and people just won't commit outside of the core 12 or so to any extra nights, especially people with the time to organize stuff.

It's the joy of casual raiding.

[SeekerJST]

We run Mon-Weds right now. We used to have sunday - people just didn't show up. We tried scheduling additional 10 man runs - we have one latenight run which is achieve/hardmodes, and people just won't commit outside of the core 12 or so to any extra nights, especially people with the time to organize stuff.

It's the joy of casual raiding.

Although, thinking about it... if now that we're done with Ulduar effectively as I think Vish and Hawk (raid officers) stated, since we killed Yogg, we could probably do Crusader, Onyxia, Start Grand Crusader all in one night, give a full night's focus on Grand Crusader the next (and throw in VoA somewhere in there) and then do ten mans the final night.
(Admittedly, this is a terrible idea from your perspective, since it would probably mess up the late night ten man, hence I'm not going to bring it up to the guild)