Conflicts and Time

[Andrew Martin]

I've been re-reading the first five Amber books by Roger Zelazny, and noticed a interesting relation between skill vs skill and time. When an author writes about a non-important conflict, if one actor is significantly highly skilled than the other, the conflict is very short in duration. But if both actors are of equal skill, the conflict is very long in duration.

Anyone got a suitable mechanic that can produce a similar effect, but with one roll of any number of randomisers? So for equal skills, the random roll determines the duration of the conflict, and eventual winner, while for grossly unequal skills, the random roll again determines the duration of the conflict and the winner. The idea being that one roll determines the duration and winner.

[NPC Whymme]

.. there are different systems for combat, from the simple "your stat is higher, so you win" to a detailed, exciting system for one-to-one duels. The idea is that the more important the fight is to the story line, and the more of a challenge it is, the more detail is spent on it in the game. It is like the Amber books; Corwin's duel with Eric (climactic fight) is described in much detail, while other combats (like the one in Greenwood, in the beginning of the book) are just done away with in one or two lines, showing how large the difference between the combatants is.

It's a conscious decision, part of a design philosophy that is found throughout the game. I don't think that you could use something like this in just any game and make it feel part of a whole.

Whymme

[Patrick Chipman]

How this might work depends. If the person with higher skill always wins, then you might have a system like this.

For equal skills, roll 1dX. The higher the roll is, the longer the conflict lasts. On an even roll, character 1 wins. On an odd roll, character 2 wins. For unequal skills, you do the same thing, except the character with the lower skill "loses" a possible success number for every point the other character has above him. These are eaten from the highest to the lowest, thus making a fast combat more likely. Furthermore, if the more skilled character rolls one of the less skilled character's old success numbers, the combat ends nearly instantly.

An example might clarify. Bob and Joe are playing chess. They both have a skill value of 5 for the purposes of playing chess, and the GM decides to use a 1d20 randomizer, because he likes icosahedrons. ;) Since Bob and Joe are of equal skill, Bob wins on any even roll, and Joe wins on any odd roll. The GM rolls 17, which means that Joe wins after a lengthy game. If the GM had rolled a 1, Joe would have smited Bob in the first few moves. If the GM had rolled a 10, an average length game would have occured, with Bob winning. In either case, the victory isn't necessarily astounding; no one appears to have any more skill than the other. In the short game example, it may just be that Joe initiated a classic blitzkrieg manuever that Bob overlooked.

Now, Deep Blue's remote controlled robot comes up and challenges Joe. Deep Blue has a 14 in playing chess, versus Joe's 5. This is a 9 point difference, so Joe loses 9 of his possible success numbers on the roll. He had 10 possible success numbers (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19), but Deep Blue's skill eats up 9 of those. The success numbers are lost from the longest conflict numbers to the slowest, so the GM informs the softly sobbing Joe that he only succeeds on a 1. On any other roll, Deep Blue wins. If the GM rolls any of the odds from 3 to 19, Deep Blue trounces Joe in no time at all. The GM rolls, getting a 13. Joe is annihilated, and the robot picks him up and throws him into a convenient incinerator. Had the GM rolled a 14, Joe would have lengthened the conflict, but Deep Blue still would have won. Had the GM rolled a 1, Joe would have amazingly beaten the computer, which would have then strapped him into the Neurolytic Data Transfer Chair and sucked all of his chess knowledge from him.

[Mithras]

My instant reaction would be to borrow a leaf out of Hero Wars. Use quick resolution for differently matched skill levels, and extended conflicts for evenly matched contests. These resemble proper fights, where both contestants jockey for position until one guy wins through, imposing his desired result on the loser. I like this concept ALOT!

[threegee]

How about this:
Both players roll a d20. To succeed, they must roll their skill (or whatever) or lower. If neither player succeeds, the round is over. If only one does so, that person wins the round. If both succeed, the player with the higher roll wins the round. If the winner rolls a success that is more than twice the loser's roll (whether or not it succeeds), the winner finishes the challenge decisively. Otherwise, the loser loses one point of skill for the duration of the challenge. If the loser is reduced to zero skill, the challenge is over. Repeat this proceedure until the challenge has been resolved. Each iteration takes a minute (or whatever).

Or, if you think challenges should take a great deal of game time, but you think actually sitting around rolling stupid dice over and over is really boring:
Each player rolls one die for each point of skill (etc). Every die that is equal to or lower than the skill is a potential success. Both players arrange their potential successes from highest to lowest. Compare each die in succession. Every time one player's die is higher than the other's, that player gains a success. If, at the end, only one player has dice left, those dice are automatically successes. The player with the most successes wins the challenge, and the entire duration of the challenge is determined by the number of the loser's successes. In the event that both players gain the same number of successes, the length of the challenge is increased by the number of successes gained by one of the players, and they roll again.

Example:
A) 6 6 5 3 2
B) 6 5 5 4 1 1

Player A gains 2 successes. Player B gains 2 successes. The challenge has already taken 2 minutes (etc). They roll again.

A) 5 5 3 2 1
B) 6 4 3 3 2 2

Player A gains 1 success and Player B gains 4 successes. Player B wins. The entire challenge has taken 3 minutes.

Any questions? :D

[NPC anth0211]

The best mechanics I've seem for recreating these type of effects are the "extras" rule found in the Exalted RPG or the thugs/henchmen/villian rule found in the 7th Sea RPG.

Anthony

[NPC Andrew Martin]

Anthony wrote:
The best mechanics I've seem for recreating these type of effects are the "extras" rule found in the Exalted RPG or the thugs/henchmen/villian rule found in the 7th Sea RPG.

Thanks for the pointer Anthony! :)