Bring new players to the industry!!

[guildrpg]

I’ve been going to RPG.net, the Forge, and virtually every other RPG discussion site that I have been able to find. One of the most common conversations I have found is, “How do we bring more people to the marketplace?”

I have seen individuals ponder it, and companies give advice, but the one thing that has been missing is action. At least, if action has been taken, it has been on an individual, small-scale basis with little to no impact for the industry as a whole.

What I am suggesting is a departure from the norm. We, on this board out number the “game giants”. We have goals that differ from the giants. But we have been acting just like them. We have been marketing our games and source books, and miniatures, but we have not been servicing the industry.

As long as we continue to compete for the same market share, we will all lose. We must expand the number of potential buyers and participants if we are to succeed in our goals, whether those goals are to be a Fortune 500 company or simply to share our work – free of charge to as many players as possible.

So, I say, let’s stop competing for the same limited group of gamers. Let’s start making gamers. There is no mystical formula, there should be no need for trickery. We all found the games because we were where they were. We either were introduced by friends, or we found them ourselves and recruited others. What we need to do is broaden the marketing focus of the industry. This is not one person’s or one company’s, or one demographic group’s responsibility. This is the responsibility of everyone who wants the industry to grow and be viable into the next generation.

So, what am I saying? I say, we do something about it. I say its time to do what we’ve all wanted to do for years. As a consolidated group, we need to band together, coordinate efforts and get it done. How do we do it? How do we begin? I have ideas, a lot of them. I have done marketing. I have run businesses. And I expect that I will have a lot of people out there who will want to help.

What I am asking is, do you want to do it? Everyone who has talked about growing the industry, bring new players in, or developing long-term strategies for our future – are you ready to do it?

Are you willing to contribute time? Are you willing to contribute money (whatever you can afford)? Are you ready to start acting on what you’ve bee talking about? If you are, let’s do it.

If you are interested you can post replies here or email me directly at guildrpg@hotmail.com.

I wish you all the best, and I hope we can join together to bring the future to us.

[NPC S. John Ross]

Some of us have been doing this, very actively, for many years, and it doesn't require an organized effort and it CERTAINLY doesn't require anyone to donate funds :)

That said, I'm all for seeing what an organized effort might be like. I'd certainly be willing to donate the wisdom of my experience: I've probably personally started close to a hundred (if not more than a hundred) brand-spanking-new gamers on the hobby over the years, and I've also done my share to revive gamers who were convinced they were forever gone. And many of my recruits and resurrections have, themselves, taken my approach and introduced and resurrected others.

Personal action can achieve a HECK of a lot. Even a drop in the bucket makes a splash when the bucket is this small ...

And, honestly, I think you misread the attitudes of the publishers. There a lot of problems, but being "competitive" (in any useful sense of the word, positive or negative) is rarely one of them. Look at the posts Guy McLimore and I made recently when asked which of our products were better ... :)

This thread should have been in the main forum, though :) It doesn't GET more on-topic than this ...

[NPC]

I found it interesting that 25 people looked at this post before anyone even felt enough about it to comment. But that's just an aside.

You're right, no donations are required - for the most part. I said people should invest what they can afford. If they can afford nothing, then invest nothing. If they can invest time/experience, so much the better. The reason I mentioned money was because as the cliche' goes, it takes money to make money.

I'm not just talking about having an open invitation for people to join you at your gaming table, but that is a great start. If you have brought 100+ to the industry, or renewed their interest, I say more power to you! If every one, myself included, could do that then we would have no shortage of new gamers! No sarcasm, I commend you.

Maybe money is the stumbling block about my post, and perhaps others are thinking that I am trying to start some kind of gamer donation scam. This is far from the truth.

But if you are going to raise the awareness of the gaming industry to people who have fallen from the ranks, or even to people who have never heard of it before, then money is going to be required. Internet sites, professional graphics, advertising, whatever is going to require some funding. If I could do it myself, I would. I believe that much in the industry. Kind of like quilting, this is an art form that is in danger of dying a slow death.

Anyone who produces a game and wants others to play it is competing with everyone else who is doing the same thing. That is all I meant about competition. And we are doing that.

As paper and dice game producers, are actual competition is enormous. We compete against every computer game, every board game, CCG, and sports team out there - not an all inclusive list, but you get the point. The difference between us and them? People know they exist.

Some of you may think that is a huge overstatement of the facts, but when I joined gaming the demographic read something like this:
Male, 18-25 years, above average IQ, 80% college attendees or graduates.

The same group of people still plays role-playing games, and thankfully, others as well. But we have lost marketshare to the above mentioned items as well as the Internet, and a variety of other recreational activities.

We need to let the people know that the industry is still here, and for those who never knew, we need to let them know it exists.

If we could all recruit 100+ people to the table, the industry would be one of the strongest in the world. Unfortunately not all of us can.

[NPC guildofbladesNPC]

There are a fair number of publishers that actively recruit new gamers.

GW and WOTC are two of the largest. Those mall based stores are great for attracting the teen crowds.

The Guild of Blades Publishing Group has been responsible for *give away* well over 300 of the W.H.A.T.? Customizable RPG (first edition) strategically in the greater metro Detroit area to middle school and high school boys. We began by cultivating several game groups, then gave them free copies of that RPG to give away to people they played with, or people that were interest. The effort has generated more new gamers than book that were given away.

We're now bring our special brand of Internet marketing to recruiting new RPGers with an online free version of the Worlds of Heroes & Tyrants Introductory Edition. Its at:

http://www.guildofblades.com/what.html

Additionally, we have been modestly successful in drawing historical enthusiasts to our Empires of History board game line, many of which were not gamers before. We do through through recruiting players for online games such as 1483 Online. Its only a web supported PBEM right now, but we have a programming firm working on a fully interactive version of that game and have brokered a deal with A&E Entertainment (they own history channel and historychannel.com) for promotion of the game.

So some of us are out here actively drawing new people to the hobby.

Ryan S. Johnson
CEO, Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com

[NPC guildrpg]

Guild of Blades has been one of the more supportive groups I have seen. Usually if someone has a question, someone from the Guild of Blades has a well thought out answer that is can really help. I had the highest respect for the Guild of Blades even before this post, now it has only increased.

While we may not agree on *everything*, it seems that the Guild of Blades is moving in the right direction for themselves and the industry.

I give my personal kudos to S. John Ross and GoB for doing what they can to further the gaming community. Again, all sarcasm aside, if we all did what you guys are doing, then there would be no worries for the industry.

Unfortunately, most of us seem to do what the other 65 (at the time of the message) viewers of this post are doing. They read it, and may even think its a good idea. Some may think its a bad idea, but good or bad, they don't think enough about it to take enough action to reply to a post. At least that is my view.

Again kudos to those who are taking action, but to those who are not - not just here on this post, but in the real world as well - before you ask how more gamers can be brought to the market, try *something*, anything. Take an action. Then, perhaps you will not have to ask how it can be done. Perhaps you can tell others how you did it. S John Ross and the Guild of Blades have given us examples of how it can be done. Take there ideas and expand upon them. We are all responsible for our future.

[NPC evilbob]

Hi,

Thanks for the praise. But I can't say that we've done it for purely ulturistic reasons. Creating new games does a couple extremely valuable things for our company.

1) Its add to the overall number of gamers, which increases the likelihood that existing consumers will find gaming groups to play and and remain active game consumers.

2) Those consumers which are first introduced to gaming through our company and products will tend to show more the average support for our company and its products. The will seek out other games (and we'll try our best to connect them with other games) and their natural inclination will be to get people to play the games they currently enjoy (our games). So recruiting new gamers is also a great way to instire world of mouth networking type marketing to the existing consumer base.

I can say that we have a number of great projects in the works to reach out and recruit gamers in mass.

1) If giving away 300+ RPG rule books generates more than 300 new teenage gamers, then you can bet we're working on a plan to turn this into a real enterprise. The first 300 book give away was merely a marketing test to see what level of new consumer acquisition would occur. We're now looking at a program to give a great many thousands of a RPG away to target markets.

2) Empires of History Board Games. The history channel gets more than 60 million viewers. History has almost become "trendy" to know, and certainly facination in history is at a peak. Yet most historical games are complex hex map styled wargames that intimidate far more potential consumers than they attract. And most are priced to high to be effective "introductory" games. That why our Empires of History games are territorial in nature and we have a number of lines that have much lower price points. For instance, our Obscure Wars Series are complete introductory historical strategy/war games priced at $14.95. Lastly, in the mass market and markets outside the hobby industry, products are often evaluated on cash flow generates vesus shelf space they require. Thats the big reason Axis & Allies lost most of its mass market presence. Box is just too darn big. If the box was half its current size the game may have remained viable in those markets. Our historical games are packaged very condensely. 6" x 9" boxes, and the larger ones will have boxes a tad smaller than bookshelf styled games. This means as our company profile increases we'll be able leverage these games into more book stores, video stores, and perhaps some mass retail chains.

1483 Online and other Interactive Strategy Games:

We currently have a web supported, PBEM version of our 1483 board game series that players may play for free. We've recently partnered with Whykay Software to develope full interactive internet computer games based on these game designs. 1483 Online is going to have both free and deluxe versions. The free version shall be complete free to play, and through historical site promotions (history channel among others), free download sites, and an new historical magazine venture we're launching, we expect to be able to get tens of thousands of historical fans to play the free version. Many of them will not have been gamers, but some of them will be drawn into the board games, and perhaps for there, into other games.

RPGCity.com

An online support site for gaming at the local level. Designed to provide city by city player directories, retail forums, and other tools designed to link local players together, support local conventions, and otherwise link players into the broader gaming community. This site is currently in development and we hope to be opening the first metro area sites in a few months.

We've got a couple other programs planned to reach out beyond the core gaming industry, but they are in too early a stage for me to post about them publicly. In any case, rest assured, not a single one of these programs would be supported if we didn;t have a profitable angle in them for our business.

Expanding the hobby is a worthy goal of every hobby gamer. Expanding the hobby is, in my opinion, an essential part of running a business that services the hobby. Its my long term job security.

Ryan S. Johnson
CEO, Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com

[Pyske]

Originally posted by NPC guildrpg
Unfortunately, most of us seem to do what the other 65 (at the time of the message) viewers of this post are doing. They read it, and may even think its a good idea. Some may think its a bad idea, but good or bad, they don't think enough about it to take enough action to reply to a post. At least that is my view.


Maybe we were so inspired we ran right out to organize a demo game? :)

OK, not buying it, huh?

Actually, I'm running a D&D demo for my office on Jan. 30th. Out of a company of ~14 people, I have 11 people coming so far. The only problem is, none of my regular gaming group will volunteer to help run a second table for me, even when offered free beer and pizza. :( Too long a drive, too busy on a weeknight, etc.

I tend to think you're preaching to the choir, to some extent. The people motivated enough to ask the question often *have* tried to run demos or recruit players, at least in my experience. It's usually the more casual gamer (who don't tend to frequent RPG.Net) who doesn't proselytize, I know a couple who are even "closet gamers" in that they don't publically admit to being a fan of the hobby.

. . . . . . . -- Eric

[NPC S. John Ross]

<B>The reason I mentioned money was because as the cliche' goes, it takes money to make money. </B>

I recruit new gamers because I love gaming. If I were motivated by money, I'd be in a different line of work entirely.

<B>If you have brought 100+ to the industry, or renewed their interest, I say more power to you! </B>

I've brought only two or three to the industry, and I regret every one. I've brought a hundred to the HOBBY.

I regard the industry as the enemy of the hobby, and I'd happily spit on its grave ;)

[guildrpg]

Well, I feel that all of us - that is those who design games and/or participate in running a game company - are part of the industry. What I am talking about when I say bring new gamers to the industry is bringing more gamers in to share our products with. Perhaps my definition of terms differs from yours.

Whether for pride or profit, we all share the common goal of seeing our hobby grow.

The means I am talking about to achive this is more sweeping than inviting people to the table. I'm talking about a marketing campaign that none of us can achieve by ourselves. We see ads for Magic:The Gathering, and for board games as well as Final Fantasy, the Xbox, Playstation, etc. I'd like to see RPG's right there in the running with these guys. I may be crazy or idealist - maybe even both but I want to see the market grow.

[NPC NPCZweihander]

I feel I have made a tiny contribution to the hobby myself by introducing about a dozen people total into the hobby (including the present group I play with), and I can say it felt good to do something for the hobby I love. Here are my thoughts on the matter:

Maybe it is pessimistic, of me to think so, but I feel that RPGs are something that most people don't want to play. it looks to me that this has always been a niche market for niche consumers. That doesn't mean however that there is no room for growth. This is where my subject comes into play.

I believe what works best is when hobby prophets like us work on a grass roots level, bringing new people into RPGs on a small batch basis. This can work as in every small group the chances are good there is at least one person who becomes interested in sharing the hobby with others.

Now we might all benefit from a level of cohesion, but that is easy nowadays (e-mail, Chat, this forum anyone?). This would allow us to share ideas and techniques that work, the rest would be up to us. The hobby has gotten this far largely without the help of modern mass marketing, and I think it can go farther if we, as we all have said, become more dedicated to doing so.

[NPC PeanutGallery]

The kind of marketing you want to do costs big bucks. Where are we going to get the money? You seem to have given this much thought. I know almost nothing about marketing, by the way, so feel free to educate me.

I'm a simple hobbyist. I've introduced some new people to RPGs, but mostly I've gone after people I know game since it is so much easier, especially with the Internet. All my gaming is on-line gaming, so the Internet has been a big help.

This thread has got me thinking, though, and I'd like to attract more people to the hobby. Assuming I had some player openings, where would you (or anyone reading this) suggest I look for new players who have never gamed before or who have fallen out of the hobby?

--- Lee

[NPC guildrpg]

Myself, personally, I'd recommend people who have fallen out of the game for a while and just need to be reintroduced. My experience may be different than others, but it seems that people who have played are more willing to play again.

As far as the marketing costing big bucks - you're right. I can cost huge amounts. I feel that a lot of the cost can be carried by the businesses that would currently benefit the most from it.

Its going to take a lot of work, here is a skeleton of my plan.

Get the support of gaming stores and comic shops (where most games are sold here in Texas). Get book stores, and other stores who are interested to support the push. By support, I mean financial. Grow from the grass roots.

Once the grass roots are firmly entrenched, even if the above portion is not complete, we attract the big names, WoTC, White Wolf, Palladium, Steve Jackson, etc. Bring them together to increase the size of their profit base.

Again, this is a skeletal - and somewhat idealized - outline of the process. Its food for thought.

[NPC guildofblades1]

If you think that you will get all of the game publishers, store owners, and other principles together to contribute to some gigantic "gaming awareness" fund, I think you are dreaming.

The large publishers have marketing budgets large enough that they can work on their own new gamer acquisition strategies. They will want to apply those funds to their own games and not tie those efforts into so many products from so many smaller companies, because if they do, their marketing dollars will not maximize their return and instead will in part help subsidize their competition.

Smaller publishers just don't have the marketing budget to be able to contribute to a general gaming marketing fund. Neither do most retailers.

And how do you create an "Industry marketing" fund and program that will help everyone? You realize that our "hobby Game Industry" is really a number of smaller industries all cobbled together? Cross over at the consumer level between those gaming industries is incommon. The industries are:

RPGs
Fantasy/sci fi Miniatures
Historical Miniatures
Board Games
Wargames
CCGs
PBEMs

Percentage wise, I would guess there is about as much cross over between table top RPGs and Board Games and there is between table top RPGs and Computer RPGs. There may even be less. As you might imagine, the cross over between CCG consumers and historical miniature consumers is even smaller.

We only "seem" like one linked industry because our product types are often distributed by the same distribution companies and sold in the same retail shops. But that is becoming less true all the time. More mass market and non hobby gaming specialty retailers are services CCGs. Historical miniatures are almost all self distributed and sell as much or more at cons and mail orders than in retail stores...very few retailers service that type of product anymore.

Which is all to say that there is no one market program that will benefit all retailers and all manufacturers. The Guild of Blades, which produces a broader selection of game lines than many companies (Board Games, War Games, RPGs, PBEM, and Fantasy Miniatures) still would not get the benefit from resources spent promoting game communities for CCGs and historical miniatures.

Want to grow the hobby? You first have to pick "which" hobby you want to help grow.

For instance, when the Guild of Blades tries to recruit new gamers, here is roughly what we target:

Our Fantasy Board Game Line:
We target people with a general interest in fantasy. Ren festival attendees, peolple into fantasy art, Buffy the Vampire Slayer type fans, etc.

Our Fantasy RPGs:
Ren Festers again, Buffy fans, fantasy fiction readers, middle school and high school kids.

Super Hero RPG line:
Comic readers

Button Wars (Our spaceship combat game)
Star Wars, B5, Trekkies, etc. Middle School and High Schoolers again.

Empires of History Board Games:
We target historical enthusiasts almost exclusively.

You see, when trying to recruit new gamers we don't target them by "game type", since they don't yet play games. We have to target them through their non gaming interest and expose them to gaming through that interest. If they get into gaming, its possible their interest will not expand into other game types and will remain with the one game type that most readily ties into their other non gaming interest.

Lastly, trying to get any company, weather it be a game pubisher, retailer, convention organization, etc, to support a general hobby marketing plan will require a very detailed business and marketing plan. Us company types will want to see how the program wil attract new gamers or draw lapsed gamers back into gaming. If it doesn't cost us money but does not make us money, we'll support the effort if it looks like it'll create new gamers in general. If it costs us money but shows no emmediate sign of allowing us a return on that investment, we'll naturally have to pass. If you can show us a plan that requires our investment, but also shows how we can profit from it, then we may indeed be interested and will financially support it.

But simply telling us you want to grow the industry will get a big "good luck, we hope you suceed" statement and we'll return to own efforts of recruiting new games; as those efforts are designed to grow the hobby in a manner that will also let our company profit, either short term or long term.

Ryan S. Johnson
CEO, Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com

[NPC guildofbladea1]

Hi,

Adding to the grow the hobby thought. Our experience has shown us that RPG gamers are created in 1 of 2 ways.

1) Group of friends already plays an RPG. Most likely D&D. They want to expand their gaming group. One friend has another friend they would like to invit into the group that is a non gamer. The newbie plays, finds they like it and its fun, and hence a new gamer is born. This happens more at the middle school, high school, and college levels that anywhere else.

2) Someone finds an RPG product on a shelf somewhere and gets curious and buys it. Could be a parent buying the D&D intro box set for a kid as a present. Could be a kid or an adult seeing an RPG with a theme that interests them and they buy it (Star Trek, LOTR, etc). However, just because this non gamer buys this product, there is no guarantee they will be able to recruit other non gamers to play it with them, or find existing gamers. Hence at present #2 recruits far less gamers than #1.

Here at the Guild we believe that #2 could be a MUCH more effective tool for creating new RPGers. But most "potential" consumers won't purchase a game they don't understand or don't know yet that they will like. However, stick a free RPG in their hands, we improve the chance that they'll try it with some friends, or become curious about it and try to locate other existing players. To that end we are designing new profitable means to give away role playing games. If you want to help us give away role playing games to newbies, the following link is to some web pages that have one:

http://www.guildofblades.com/what.html

The second part of that approach is that once a potential newbie has been given an RPG, to help direct that newbie into a gaming group. This could be done by getting the newbie to formulate his own or by linking him together with existing RPGers.

RPGCity.com is primarily designed to serve that very purpose. Of course it won't be limited to just RPGs, but hey, you get the idea.

Ryan S. Johnson
CEO, Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com

[NPC guildrpg]

If there was a magical formula to grow our hobby to the masses, then I think any of us who could afford the formula would be doing it.

I know how marketing works. I know what business plan valuations, risk assessments, and return on investment is about. So far only one person has asked how it can be done, everyone else is saying they are doing it in their own way or that it can't be done. Frankly I was surprised at how little the general populace of this board cared about the topic. Over in the design forum the post "Why your game sucks..." had well over 1600 reads. While this post which could have just as easily been titled, "How to expand your profit potential" has already disappeared from the main forum and seems to be more of a debate between myself and the Guild of Blades over here in marketing.

Two other have contributed - and I'm thankful for that. After seeing over 100 views with less than 10 replies, I realized that RPGNet is not the place for this type of marketing plan to begin.

I understand what the members of the Guild of Blades are saying, but I do not agree with most of it - the part that directly applies to this plan. I believe that awarness can be raised, and that there are several organizations out there who are willing to help. At least the ones I have talked to have been...

When the computer was invented, the top scientists thought there may be a need for ten computers worldwide. Now they're everywhere. The phone was invented because people were just trying to change amplitude rates for more efficient use of telegraph lines. Many examples of this type of thing exist in our history. What it comes down to is that as a species we tend to undervalue what we have and not look at the long term. And the long term is often brighter than most of us can imagine.

[Andrew Martin]

I think the most obvious way to do it, would be to play RPGs in public, and be enthusiastic and excited while playing. Perhaps more LARPing?

[Zweihander]

GAMA comes quickly to mind, but aren't there already industry groups dedicated to RPG awareness as a hobby?

Maybe working through present organizations would be a better idea.

[Guildofblades]

>>agree with most of it - the part that directly applies to this plan. I believe that awarness can be raised, and that there are several organizations out there who are willing to help. At least the ones I have talked to have been... <<

When you are talking about trying to increase the hobby, awareness of it alone won't have a great impact.

You have to think why people play RPGs and why they play other games. Then you also have to consider how most players get introduced to these types of games.

In my opinion, awareness is at an all time high. More people are aware of Dungeons and Dragons, and more importantly, the concept of role playing games than they ever have been. Hasbro has leveraged "intro" D&D box sets into a lot of mass market venues.

With awareness also comes acceptence. Hence why there are a lot less "D&D is santanic" cries out among the general public.

But awareness alone won't generate new players. I truly believe that most teens are "aware" of role playing games. But to get them to play, we have to get them to try it. That means getting them into a RPG group someone. We can hope that mere curiosity will drive them to buy a RPG and that with that purchase they'll find a way to play (won't happen unless they can convince some friends or find existing players). Awareness will probably increase that curiosity factor and that will certainly lead to a few more "blind" purchases of RPG product (most likely D&D, since that is in the most mass market locations).

But to recruit more gamers, we have to >GET THEM TO PLAY<.

That should be the dominating thought behind any new gamers marketing effort.

Otherwise what you are talking about is "Branding" gaming. But gaming is not one name, or even on product category, and any attempt to brand a "an intertainment concept" is, in my opinion, a near practical impossibility.

I applaud the effort to bring new gamers into the hobby. Extremely admirable for any existing gamer. A necessity for any business servicing the hooby, with a thought towards its future. But if you are going to spearhead this effort, I would much rather see you be success at it, and want to get you thinking about practical ways to recruit new gamers.

Ryan S. Johnson
CEO, Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com

[Jack]

Well, something that might help is working on people skills.

Seriously, from the consumer to company presidents I have met too many people in this industry who have the social skills of a wounded great white. That sort of stuff turns people off. And it only takes a few jerks to turn people off. And we have more than a few jerks. We've got sexism, rampant idealism of all stripes, pretension galore, and good old fashioned completely unwarranted arrogance. From the "tragically hip" who want to scare the "straights" to "old school gamers" who don't like all these "wannabes and upstarts". Hell, we can't even like and understand each other.

And unlike so many other forms of entertainment, this hobby requires enough work and mandatory social interaction that many people will say "Ah, screw it!" if they get treated poorly or indifferently by gamers and game companies. And its not what we think is fair, its what most people would consider fair is what matters.

For example, most people expect that when they see a movie or book that says "Coming in August" that said book will be out in August....not December, Sure mistakes and accidents happen, but in many cases scheduling is a joke (this isn't a slam on everyone, there are those who make their deadlines...though they should not be something special).

From the consumer side, don't talk people's ears off about things they don't care about. if you've got a guy who's thinking about gaming cause he just saw Lord of the Rings and wants to know if there are any games like that out there...do not try and convince him why he should not bother with "silly fantasy" and pick up the latest game you think is "brilliant and innovative". Also, he he wants a cheap, supplement free game (for example) don't hand him GURPS or Deadlands or Brave New World....its just going to confuse him...Point at D&D and a handful of others and be glad another gamer has been made, don't throw the free car out cause you don't like the color of his paint job...

Oh and learn to a) play women and minorities as something other than stereotypes or b) don't play them and instead try to get real women and minorities to play them or c) do what you want but don't blab about it at your local game store or hangout or whatever.

And for god's sakes...bathe.