Reviewers

[flyingmice]

Can anyone here recommend a fair reviewer or three that I can trust to not have flaming prejudices? We are releasing the game in about 3 weeks. How much time should I allow? As a rank beginner at this, I'd appreciate anything you guys can tell me.

[flyingmice]

Did I step in it again? If so, consider the question withdrawn, and I'll just clean off my shoes. I'm sorry! I'll hunt down a reviewer on my own then. Every board/forum has their own unspoken rules in addition to the regular rules, and I perhaps have unwittingly crossed the bounds here.

[Rubisco]

I don't think you have blundered here. This is just a slow forum from what i can tell. There isn't much traffic and it doesn't get many posts (compared to other About the Industry forums). I watch this forum quite a bit and it seems that there are only a handful of regular, very informative posters here (e.g. Gareth-Michael Skarka, Guildofblades, Gold Rush Games, Misguided, Wizardattic, etc). Most of the rest of us are just guys looking for answers. This week has been especially slow here. Perhaps the guys with the info are taking a break.

Edit: stupid punctuation

[flyingmice]

Rubisco said:

"I don't think you have blundered here. This is just a slow forum from what i can tell. There isn't much traffic and it doesn't get many posts (compared to other About the Industry forums). I watch this forum quite a bit and it seems that there are only a handful of regular, very informative posters here (e.g. Gareth-Michael Skarka, Guildofblades, Gold Rush Games, Misguided, Wizardattic, etc). Most of the rest of us are just guys looking for answers. This week has been especially slow here. Perhaps the guys with the info are taking a break"

Thanks! Those guys have already helped me out here, so I know what you mean, and heartily agree. Thank you for taking the time to answer (read reassure) me. I am not yet at home here, as you guys don't know me yet, and I am just starting to get to know you all from your posts. There is a huge amount of talent and experience here, it seems to me, and I am sorry I've not had the benefit of that while developing our game. it might have made a big difference. As it is, we have been working for 2 years in the dark. :D

[Eoghann]

Originally posted by flyingmice
Did I step in it again? If so, consider the question withdrawn, and I'll just clean off my shoes. I'm sorry! I'll hunt down a reviewer on my own then. Every board/forum has their own unspoken rules in addition to the regular rules, and I perhaps have unwittingly crossed the bounds here.

Well theres a familiar name I did't expect to run into here. I really ought to pay a visit to Moobunny... haven't been there in ages.

[hemflit]

Hello there flyingmice.

First, let me tell you that, besides being something of a newbie on these boards, i'm a much bigger outsider than you - i'm merely a person who thinks it would be "kind of nifty" to seriously publish games in an indeterminate future, and wants to learn of at least some of the perils of the path ahead of time. But two heads are smarter than one, so i figure my thoughts on this can still be of some use to you.

It seems to me like a strange thing to ask for reviewer recommendations. For one thing, reviewers, at least on the net, are a dime a dozen, and it seems a bit difficult to remember any number as particularly good.

Giving away a review copy, even of a (commercial) electronic product, is an investment in marketing, not in the public's factual awareness, and in return you should want to get the best review possible (though "want to get" does not mean "have the right to demand"). You don't really want a fair reviewer, you want someone who will have a bias to like your game from the start. On the other hand, the most favorable review is certainly not the best - a panegiric never convinces anyone that something is good.

I'm certainly not suggesting that you bribe your reviewers (any more than offering the product for review is a bribe in itself) not only because it's unethical, but also because it's counter-productive - if they feel bribed, it usually shows in the review, and people give it less credibility. I'm saying that you should choose your reviewer. Ideally, it will be someone both with good reviewing skills, and predisposed to like your product. If they really have "good reviewing skills" they will write merely a favorable review, not an "i'm in love with this game" - even if they are in love with it, they will try to maintain some objectivity, at least mention the elements or details they think are bad, and believe it or not, that's good for you, because it increases the credibility of a mostly favorable review.

Let's assume you're making an SF game, and want it reviewed on RPGnet. If i were you, i'd first look through the review database for reviewers who like SF - i'd expect those to be the ones that write the most SF RPG reviews. Also look for those who seem to like games that have something in common with your game - but avoid those who seem in love with some particular other game, lest you get a review saying "like Star Wars, only not as good" or "they should've learned from Traveller" or "this game is trying to replace Alternity, but it's not up to it". Even if that doesn't happen, these obviously aren't the most professional reviewers.

Ultimately, this is the most important thing: choose someone who writes reviews well. Someone who makes them readable and informative.

So approach that person and ask them if they're interested in reviewing your product. Get yourself one review at RPGnet, no more than that - if your game is any good, you will likely spontaneously get a few more with time. In a similar way, get reviewed at a few other sites.

Magazines are, if i understand correctly, different. They will generally have their own reviewers and won't give you the choice of who to assign to your product, though they should probably accept a suggestion not to give it to some particular reviewer who you're afraid might be biased against it. Many online sites (usually the more commercial ones) work this way too. In fact, unless i'm wrong, you could just offer a review copy straight to RPGnet or any volunteer-driven review base and let their usually overworked staff pass it on to one of their (more regular) reviewers, but i'm sure you'd be better off targeting them yourself.

Finally, nothing guarantees you'll get what you want. I remember John Wick going in some article or whatever "Noone is getting a free review copy of Orkworld, they'd all just screw it up. I can think of just one guy who's going to write it right, and i gave the only review copy to him." Soon afterwards, he complained very vocally about the quality of that one review.

Good luck

hemflit

[Misguided]

Originally posted by flyingmice
Can anyone here recommend a fair reviewer or three that I can trust to not have flaming prejudices? We are releasing the game in about 3 weeks. How much time should I allow? As a rank beginner at this, I'd appreciate anything you guys can tell me.

Some commense sense haven't-really-done-this-much-myself thoughts...

Are you looking for a review specifically for rpg.net? In that case, you might try looking through the reviews database for people who have written reviews of products that are in the same category as yours in a thoughtful manner.

Another approach might be to post in Open Promo that you are looking for a reviewer for a specific type fo game. See who replies. Check out other reviews they have done. I'm not sure what actual rpg.net policy is at the moment.

Time needed may vary greatly by individual as well as the type of game. (Forgive me, but I have I hard time remembering what I'M doing half the time...was this an RPG, card game, etc.?)

[Misguided]

Originally posted by flyingmice
There is a huge amount of talent and experience here, it seems to me, and I am sorry I've not had the benefit of that while developing our game. it might have made a big difference. As it is, we have been working for 2 years in the dark. :D

This speaks volumes. FIX THIS! as soon as you can. Talk to people. Ask them what mistakes they've made. You may still prevent some of your own.

[flyingmice]

Originally posted by Eoghann


Well theres a familiar name I did't expect to run into here. I really ought to pay a visit to Moobunny... haven't been there in ages.

Tell the truth, neither have I! Weeeelll, a couple of weeks or so. I just *own* the site! :D

Good to see a familiar face here, Eoghann! Why didn't you tell me about this place before! :O

[flyingmice]

Originally posted by hemflit
Hello there flyingmice.

First, let me tell you that, besides being something of a newbie on these boards, i'm a much bigger outsider than you - i'm merely a person who thinks it would be "kind of nifty" to seriously publish games in an indeterminate future, and wants to learn of at least some of the perils of the path ahead of time. But two heads are smarter than one, so i figure my thoughts on this can still be of some use to you.

[CLIP]

Finally, nothing guarantees you'll get what you want. I remember John Wick going in some article or whatever "Noone is getting a free review copy of Orkworld, they'd all just screw it up. I can think of just one guy who's going to write it right, and i gave the only review copy to him." Soon afterwards, he complained very vocally about the quality of that one review.

Good luck

hemflit

Thanks, Hemflit! There was a load of good advice there. I know *I* never buy anything from a gushing review, and that was probably in the back of my mind when I asked the question. On the other hand, I have sometimes bought things that got bad reviews because I knew the reviewer's prejudices, and figured "anything he hates, I must love". :D

That is probably not a normal reaction, though, so I'd better look for a reviewer who seems predisposed to like it. :P

[flyingmice]

Originally posted by Misguided


Some commense sense haven't-really-done-this-much-myself thoughts...

Are you looking for a review specifically for rpg.net? In that case, you might try looking through the reviews database for people who have written reviews of products that are in the same category as yours in a thoughtful manner.


Hmmm. Category. That means I'm going to have to categorize it, doesn't it? I suppose a few descriptive terms with "-ish" at their tails won't cut it? Dang! I thought not! :P

Originally posted by Misguided

Another approach might be to post in Open Promo that you are looking for a reviewer for a specific type fo game. See who replies. Check out other reviews they have done. I'm not sure what actual rpg.net policy is at the moment.


That certainly sounds like a viable route! Thanks! :D

But then there's that "type" thing again! :O

Originally posted by Misguided

Time needed may vary greatly by individual as well as the type of game. (Forgive me, but I have I hard time remembering what I'M doing half the time...was this an RPG, card game, etc.?)


Ah! This is an RPG, with integral setting. Is that what you meant by "type"? Am I really going to get off that easy? Why do I feel a sense of impending doom? :O

:D

[flyingmice]

Originally posted by Misguided


This speaks volumes. FIX THIS! as soon as you can. Talk to people. Ask them what mistakes they've made. You may still prevent some of your own.

Well, the first mistake it would have fixed would have been that we would never have attempted to put the game together at all. There seem to be one hundred and one game designers out there, all of them no doubt much better than we are. At this point though, all the hard work is done, written, illustrated, and playtested, and it's far too late to chicken out like a sensible person. :D

I *have* been talking to people here, ever since I tripped across this place, and I read everything. We haven't implemented anything I read about because, to tell the truth, it's all done, and to change anything now would mean months of rewriting and playtesting added to the two years we have spent so far, and we have spent far to long on it as it is. All the things we needed working around have been fixed. Sometimes less elegantly than similar solutions I have seen here, I am sure, but fixed nevertheless.

No-one at Flying Mice is going to make a living at this game. We know this and accept it. We still think it's a worthwhile game, the testers seemed to really enjoy it, and the work is basically all done. We are also comitted to supporting it. We have reams of material in process. Is it new? Controversial? Bizarre? Kewl? In other words, worthy of massive press notice? Hardly. :P

[Misguided]

Don't sell yourself TOO short...you never know.
Yep, type = rpg is fine, though a genre might be good too. Some people don't like fantasy or sci-fi etc. Not a good idea to be reviewed by someone who is predisposed to hating the game, right?

If the game is really hard to categorize, that could be a problem. How do you market it? Are you printing this or doing it as a pdf? When someone asks "What is it about?" how do you answer?

[flyingmice]

Originally posted by Misguided
Don't sell yourself TOO short...you never know.
Yep, type = rpg is fine, though a genre might be good too. Some people don't like fantasy or sci-fi etc. Not a good idea to be reviewed by someone who is predisposed to hating the game, right?

If the game is really hard to categorize, that could be a problem. How do you market it? Are you printing this or doing it as a pdf? When someone asks "What is it about?" how do you answer?

OK. Fair enough. It's a SF RPG with a Fantasy RPG buried inside it. The Fantasy stuff takes place on one world of the over 500 in the SF game, and can be played separately or seamlessly, as the GM chooses. In other words, the Fantasy stuff can be excised from the SF game, and vice versa, but really the Fantasy stuff is a "Setting" within the SF game, with "Extended Rules" to work the "magic". Don't worry, it's not another universal rule set like GURPS or whatever. There is no Gothic Horror or Pulp Fiction version upcoming.

We are initially releasing it as a PDF. If there is some actual interest, we would be happy to work up a print version.

That's it. Wasn't as bad as I thought! :P

[NPC NPCandyl]

You might want to contact games unplugged to request a review.
In exchange for a review copy of your product the editor will send it out to one of his reviewers. most reviews are 250 words with a letter grade.

The magazine has a large stable of largely impartial reviewers (myself included).

andy lucas

[flyingmice]

Originally posted by NPC NPCandyl
You might want to contact games unplugged to request a review.
In exchange for a review copy of your product the editor will send it out to one of his reviewers. most reviews are 250 words with a letter grade.

The magazine has a large stable of largely impartial reviewers (myself included).

andy lucas

Thanks, Andy! I appreciate the tip. :D

[flyingmice]

Originally posted by flyingmice


Thanks, Andy! I appreciate the tip. :D

Ummm... Do you have an email address you could send me? I can't find one for reviews on their website. I don't know if you should post it here or not. My email is clash@flyingmice.com