[necro] Immensely popular video games you hate [Archive]

_Gabriel

08-09-2003, 10:11 AM

I despise just about every first person shooter walk down the hallway and kill things sort of game there is. I remember first playing Doom. I played it for about 30 minutes and then realized that I had seen pretty much everything and every technique used in the game. I lost all interest in it immediately. The fact that there are so many of this type of game in existence makes me despair for humanity. Doom, Unreal, Quake, Halo, Tomb Raider, Duke Nuke'em... they all need to be taken out into a desert in New Mexico, bulldozed, and buried in cement.

Another game type I hate is the 3D platformer. While I can stand 2d platformers even though I dislike them, the 3D platformer is second only to the FPS in terms of sheer craptacularity. From Mario 64 to Sonic Adventure, all there ever is to do is wander around like a fucking idiot and stare at the pretty graphics. To make the games even worse, 99% of the time the controls suck beyond the capability of anything from this universe to suck. Invariably the camera pitches around to somewhere you don't want it, or you can't tell where that little platform actually is in relation to your character, or you just can't see what the fuck you're supposed to be doing other than wandering around and looking at the pastel colors.

Wheeeeeeee!

Goddamn 3d platformers.

And now we come to my mildest hate, ACTION RPGs! It's hard to describe my dislike of these properly. I guess a good way to summarize it would be like this:

I like RPGs. I also like fighting games and shooters. I don't like RPGs where I have to jiggle the controller around like I'm playing a fighting game or shooter.

And from my perspective, action RPGs suck as games. The first Zelda for the NES was good. However, every Zelda game since then has blown mammoth chunks of craptitude. Worse yet, there are the imitators like Secret of Mana, Crusader of Centy, and any number of other more recent games that each add a new layer of crap to the genre.

And to make the situation even more offensive, action RPG elements keep on being added to the real CRPGs. Sometimes its a rather innocent addition of "press the button at the right time to trigger a critical hit". Other times it manifests as a much worse adaptation of action rpgisms.

rant complete

Brass Monkey

08-09-2003, 10:39 AM

i never did like the resident evil series. i just wasnt into the gorefest zombie bashing that much. liked silent hill better cuz it wasnt just gross. it was SCAREY.

Jesse Custer

08-09-2003, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Gabriel
I despise just about every first person shooter walk down the hallway and kill things sort of game there is.

, Tomb Raider,

Just so you know, Tomb Raider (iirc - I never played it so my memory may not be accurate) is a third-person game.

Hurtfulpotato

08-09-2003, 12:54 PM

The Eye

08-09-2003, 01:50 PM

fps shooters = boring, over-complicated, and boring. yes, that boring.
i dislike Diablo-style games for pretty much the same reasons.

AliasiSudonomo

08-09-2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Pseudo Nymh

Okay, your turn! Tell us about famous video games you hate!

No rebuttals or flames in this thread!

Well, shucks. All the games *I* hate are pretty mediocre to begin with.

Although I do have a hatred of the "extreme" crap. You know, "Dave Hawk's XXXtreme BMX Skiiing!!!!!"... but this ties more into my hatred of trying to be "hip" and "cool" for the crucial teenage-to-30 market by called every goddamned thing "extreme!".

_Gabriel

08-09-2003, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by Jesse Custer
Just so you know, Tomb Raider (iirc - I never played it so my memory may not be accurate) is a third-person game.

I consider Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, and similar 3rd person games to be in the same genre as the FPSes because they are generally themed the same way and they suck about equally. :P

lost thought

08-09-2003, 10:18 PM

Kingdom Hearts on the PS2 - all the previews and reviews pretty much acted like it was the second coming of Cheez Whiz.

What I found was a game with gorgeous graphics but gameplay that amounted to fighting with the camera while fighting boring, repetitive battles. I didn't see the appeal.

-lost

Lost Cub

08-10-2003, 07:35 PM

I normally love CRPGs, but these two piss me off:

Diablo II. It's all about clicking on tacky little pictures. Like playing Windows, really.

Neverwinter Nights. See above. Plus, the gameplay's much worse. You can play a fighter and stomp through the game, or you can play anything else and get enough magical items +999 and a henchmen 3x stronger than you and still stomp through the game. Boring.

LC

Flawless Glory of Silence

08-10-2003, 10:53 PM

Neverwinter Nights.

For the simpel fact that, after months and months of lusting for it, I (unexpectedly) upgraded my computer to the point where it coudl run it, and run it well.

And.

It.

Just.

Would.

Not.

Install.

Jesse Custer

08-11-2003, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by Flawless Glory of Silence
Neverwinter Nights.

For the simpel fact that, after months and months of lusting for it, I (unexpectedly) upgraded my computer to the point where it coudl run it, and run it well.

And.

It.

Just.

Would.

Not.

Install.

Don't worry - there's nothing to install. This game's on my list too. I bought it and sold it to my brother once he destroyed his copy.

The game is very good only because of its tools (which only programmers can use, btw) and only if you're going to actually use those tools. The "game" that comes with it is a big step backward in time. The story is cheap and the game's execution is as well (e.g. characters can't sit in chairs (my brother wrote a script that allowed them to do so in his conversion of Ultima), it's not really 3D (you can't walk under something that someone can walk over and vice versa), the only doors you can walk through are the ones central to the plot (or side-plot)).

Voidnaut

08-11-2003, 07:02 AM

Neverwinter Nights is the one that comes to mind for me as well. I'm very excited by it because it proves the idea can work and be marketed, but in of itself it's a decidedly uninspired game.

-Voidnaut

(un)reason

08-11-2003, 07:31 AM

The donkey kong series. (the cgi imaged ones by rare, not the original one screen games) God they were irritating. There is no way you could know where many of the hidden things are, without stumbling across them by luck, because of the crap camera angles.
The N64 one was especialy annoying because there were somethng like 10 different things that you had to collect various amounts of in each level, and you had to do it 5 times, one for each character, and it was absolutly ridiculous to keep track of. Not the kind of thing ever want to do agian.

Afterburner

08-11-2003, 08:13 AM

I have looked deep within myself, and have discovered that...well...I just can't bring myself to hate a video game.

True, actual hate is reserved for self-righteous, condescending fucks and Neo-Nazis and people who say "If you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to fear from the government invading your privacy." And, y'know, stuff like that.

There are, however, games that leave me significantly underwhelmed, especially considering their popularity. The games that strike me this way the most are "Real Time Strategy" games. Command and Conquer, Total Annihilation, Warcraft, Starcraft, Majesty, etc etc.

The appeal of these games, for me, is exceptionally limited. I always enjoy the first few missions whenever I bother to play one, but around the 5th or 6th mission I'm getting burned out by the repetitive gameplay: Send your construction crews out to build buildings that let you build troops and other buildings that let you build other troops and other buildings, so you can amass enough firepower to take out the enemy base on the other side of the map, so that you can get a new mission where you do the same exact thing all over again.

There are a few exceptions that give a new twist on the proceedings. I love the Dungeon Keeper games, for example. But for the most part, this genre of games just leaves me cold.

Eamon Voss

08-11-2003, 08:34 AM

I hate real-time strategy games.

I hate science fiction 3-d shooters (doom, QUake, UT, etc) with the exception of Halo. Give me realism!!!

I hate CRPGs.

Qusoor

08-11-2003, 09:25 AM

Diablo II. I had a friend who wouldn't shut about how cool it was, that I had to play it, etc, etc. So I did. And you know what? Waaaaaah the hell back when I had a Vic-20, there was a game called Sword of Fargoal. You wandered around the 20 levels of a dungeon and tried to find the Sword of Fargoal, and then get back out of the dungeon. You had to have the 18K expansion of the Vic-20 to play this game.

Diablo II is The Sword of Fargoal with a crappy plot and prettier graphics, some twenty years later. The gameplay isn't that much different.

Cessna

08-11-2003, 10:42 AM

ANY side-scrolling fighting game...

Pseudo Nymh

08-11-2003, 10:56 AM

Here's another one I hate: Grand Theft Auto games.

These games aren't fun. They're fucking frustrating. The fourth or fifth time I try to kill a guy and fail because the camera won't cooperate with me, and you can't shoot someone you can't see, I literally threw my controller at the TV. And I'm usually a pretty calm guy.

The game is repetative, trying the same mission OVER and OVER again, all the while failing because the control is a little too sensative or the camera doesn't rotate right or you scratched your car on some imaginary box...damn, I hate these games.

-Nymh, feels better now

Elkatas

08-11-2003, 11:17 AM

I don't actually hate Metal Gear Solid 2, but it was way too short game. Hell, if I pay seventy euros for game I except that I don't play it through in ten hours.

Have anybody else noticed that games are far more shorter in these days?

Flawless Glory of Silence

08-11-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Jesse Custer
Don't worry - there's nothing to install. This game's on my list too. I bought it and sold it to my brother once he destroyed his copy.

Makes me even happier I swapped it for IWD2.

BlackSheep

08-11-2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Elkatas
Have anybody else noticed that games are far more shorter in these days?

Hell yes. I was taken aback by how quickly my housemates blasted through things like Devil May Cry, DMC2, Enter the Matrix and so on.

That said, it's also much easier to access free reviews and customer feedback these days, so they only have themselves to blame.

Jay

08-11-2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Elkatas
Have anybody else noticed that games are far more shorter in these days?

Yup, and it's worst kept secret as to why. Sony wanted to have more games than the competition so they put out the mandate the game look pretty, but be short. This was for two reasons: A. to have more games out there, and B. to drive consumer demand for new games. There was a big uproar about it a few months after the PS2 came out, and a lot of editorials written about Sony's silence on the matter.

Mind you, a lot of developers took a look at Sony's strategy, and decided to use it themselves, which spread over to almost all areas of video/computer gaming. It surprises me now how quickly it takes me to finish a CRPG these days, as I'm not spending countless hours on them like I was as a teenager, but I'm finishing them even faster.

Kenshiro

08-11-2003, 03:20 PM

I've been thinking about this a lot, and like Afterburner, I don't hate any kind of video game either.

Even the ones I've been disappointed in, like Metal Gear Solid 2 and Devil May Cry 2 have given me a lot of fun and ideas.

So nope, no video game hate from me.

sys64738

08-11-2003, 03:33 PM

I haven't played a 3d fighter that I liked. I think it's mainly a
(lack of) control issue.

Harlequin Jones

08-11-2003, 11:41 PM

Sword of Fargoal. Gods, I hate that fucking game. Twenty years, and I have yet to beat it.

"Oh, cool! I've fought my way down to the third level, fought 500 monsters, and gotten a healing potion. Hey, I wonder what that monster is. TIAMAT? The fuck???"

*GROWL*

Thou art slain!

grr
HJ

mathey

08-12-2003, 10:21 AM

Mortal Kombat.

Lousy digitized images of idiot actors in crap costumes with jerky controls. Add on a layer of smug self-referential grossout humor and you have Spatulalad-repellant.

Tharkun

08-12-2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Lost Cub
Diablo II. It's all about clicking on tacky little pictures. Like playing Windows, really.

LC

I'm sigging this :D

Scoundrel

08-12-2003, 04:48 PM

Starfox Adventures. You start out in a "training mode" without a fucking good reason, and that training mode features a character that you've never seen, or even cared about, prior. I don't want to play the blue dog chick, I bought the game to play Starfox, dammit!

Another nit-pick is that the game's cutscenes feature speach, but do so in a made-up language, with little tiny bits of English thrown in for objects, names, and places, but with TINY subtitles. I have a sixty inch widescreen TV and still had a hard time reading them.

Games that are based on extraordinarily cool liscences, like Batman: Vengence, that totally fail to capture an iota of that liscence's spirit or fun. I'm tired of having to repeatedly beat people up that I've already had to knock out five times already, simply because I've run out of bat-cuffs. I also have access to the bat-grapple at all times, despite the fact that for 99% of the game, you don't use it.

The X-Box. Four factors keep me from buying this monstrosity:

1) All controllers for this system inherently suck. Even with the newer "S-type" controller, small buttons and awkward positioning of elements on the controller hamper my hands. PS2 crams just as many buttons on theirs, and do so ergonoically. Gamecube's controller is pure perfection. Simplicity, coupled with perfect ergonomics. The GC controller fits my hands like a pair of rediculously expensive gloves. the X-Box's controllers are universally clunky and nearly unusable.

2) It's FUCKING HUGE, physically massing more than my PS2 and Gamecube put together. I carry my systems between locations a lot. portability IS an issue for me.

3) You have to buy extra stuff to use it as a DVD player. PS2 doesn't come with a remote, but you can use its DVD function right off the bat. If it's touted as an all-in-one system, it should be all-in-one right out of the box.

4) Microsoft made it. I'm not trying to start a flamewar, honest! Microsoft constantly turns out third rate products, and software, leaving gaping security holes in their operating systems. If they release flawed work as their major flagship product, how bad can their second and third bananna products be? As long as I'm forced by their draconian tactics to have their software on my PC, I'm sure as hell not going to voluntarily pony up my hard earned dollars for something that they're trying to sell.

Tyrendell

08-13-2003, 07:20 AM

Fuckin'

Mario

Bros.

I HATE THEM!!!!

Whew, glad i got that off my chest!

vitus979

08-13-2003, 08:19 AM

I hate the 3d 3rd person action games where the camera rotates independant of the user. In other words games like Tomb Raider where you can't control the camera angle, and it always changes.

This was brought home when I saw a friend of mine playing Two Towers a couple months ago. I didn't even play it and I could tell I'd hate it.

Garry G

08-13-2003, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by Tyrendell
Fuckin'

Mario

Bros.

I HATE THEM!!!!

Whew, glad i got that off my chest!

I so agree with you. I've never ubderstood the attraction.

Christopher the Plumped

08-13-2003, 08:33 AM

Lost Kingdom! An absolute horrid game.

vitus979

08-13-2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Tyrendell
Fuckin'

Mario

Bros.

I HATE THEM!!!!

Whew, glad i got that off my chest!

I *DO* like the original Mario Brothers arcade game, but not anything in the series after that.

Every Zelda game since the first has left me cold too.

Coyraven

08-13-2003, 10:43 AM

Silent Hill series (is boring supposed to be scary?)
Resident Hill series (the controls are scarier then the zombies)
Tomb Raider- or any JUMP OR DIE game. ugh.
Starcaft- I like rts, but just can not get into this game.

CR

Robovski

08-13-2003, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Pinja
Lost Kingdom! An absolute horrid game.

Can't think, must watch avatar....

Peter LaCara

08-13-2003, 10:57 AM

The Grand Theft Auto series. I can't stand these games. I know people get a vicarious thrill by killing hookers and stuff, but I was never the guy who just went around shooting people in games because I felt like it. I also hate driving games. So... this game is obviously anathema to me.

Any 3d platformer. I suck at jumping puzzles. They make me nervous. I HATE them. I watch my friends playing Super Mario Sunshine and I get nervous just watching them. And not in a good way.

Splinter Cell, Metal Gear Solid, and any other sneaky ninja game. I don't really hate them... they just bore me to tears. Don't really know why.

Robovski

08-13-2003, 10:59 AM

There, that broke the spell.

I really don't care for RTS, I bought Rise of Nations just a couple weeks ago and it's entertaining for a while but I found myself putting the Civ3PTW disk back in and playing that a couple days later.

What I don't even bother to purchase is adventure or shooters. RPGs can be good (Fallout) or banal (please, no! It hurts to think of it!). I can get quite a bit of fun from an arcade game, but I don't play them at home (well, OK, Pinball I do).I'm a turn-based strategy kinda guy for my computer gaming meat and potatoes (and even those can suck - Outpost anyone?).

AJFixer

08-13-2003, 11:01 AM

I never liked video RPGs. The entire Final Fantasy series bored me to tears the few times I sampled them.

Coyraven

08-13-2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Robovski
I really don't care for RTS, I bought Rise of Nations

Haha- I forgot about this one. I dl'd the demo and it kicked my butt.. over and over. I can play most rts's at the highest difficulty, but this game seems to be too much for me.

Man, that is pathetic.. there for, I hate it. ;)

CR

Spiff

08-14-2003, 09:48 PM

Counter-strike.

Boy, do I like being the only person to go on offense on my team, getting killed because I have no backup, and then get to watch my useless team sit around picking their asses waiting for somebody to walk around the corner.

Yup, I love playing games I don't get to play half the time, especially when there's a substantial element of luck involved with the random bullet spread.

And of course I have to mention the hackers/cheaters that further ruined that game, along with the general dumbasses that are drawn to this game.

martikhoras

08-17-2006, 12:51 AM

Fuckin'

Mario

Bros.

I HATE THEM!!!!

Whew, glad i got that off my chest!

*sniff*

I *DO* like the original Mario Brothers arcade game, but not anything in the series after that.

Every Zelda game since the first has left me cold too.

*agape*

----
almost any ohmigawd game, because its usually a relic within a year, or horribly imitated to irrelevance in two or three.

But mainly not a fighting fan but their prominence at parties means I WANNA and need to know my stuff if I wanna mingle and not get beaten. Only it feels like too much work for no pay to play these things. And I have no way to know if I'm actually any good playing by myself and I don't have FG friends so... *sigh*
Still willing to try anytrhing

BTw I found this thread using google to search on Kingdom Hearts.

Professor Phobos

08-17-2006, 01:11 AM

I never liked Starcraft or Diablo.

Counter-Strike just enrages me.

Let's see. I recently came to the conclusion I hated the Resident Evil games...

Jigglypuff

08-17-2006, 01:25 AM

Games I hate...

Final Fantasy (after 7) - God I swear if I see one more Lead "Guy" that looks like a woman with Spaghetti arms I'm going to puke. Also do all the characters have to be annoying, Whinny people. In fact even though I ommited FF7 Cloud was one of the biggers whiner in FF.

Grand Theft Auto - I really want to like these games I really do.. I own all of them except San Andreas. So I do some missions, but eventually it breaks down to me wanting to crash cars, run over people, and shoot a lot.. Which is cool and all for about an Hour then I start wondering why I bought this game if that's all I ever do with it. Camera angles are also horrid in most of them. Woe to you if you go into a narrow alleyway and expect to fight. Why is it when a gang goes to war with me they can shoot the crap out of me but soon as I fire here comes the cops to bust me!

Zelda The 64 era - I didn't like these from the begining. Everone raved about how awesome the graphics were. Yup they were nice if you could get past the washed out color. Everything in the world seemed dull because the colors were dull. Both of the 64 Zeldas stories were lacking and I just felt like I was finishing the game just to finish it.

Yup I have a lot of Hate.. There's enough of it to go around. Guess I'm sort of like a radio talk show host I can hate on anything.. =)

bastard

08-17-2006, 01:28 AM

I havent been dissapointed in a lot of games, because I know that I am not going to like most FPS, Final Fantasy, fighting games (ala mortal combat) and what have you, so I dont buy them (unless they are used and only cost 5 bucks and I cant find anything better).

However, I really cant stand side scrolling games, even when computers and the atari and intellivision first came out. They just irritated me beyond all fuck. Even everyone's beloved Contra. Fuck that game, I will punch it in the face. Thats the game everybody always wanted to play and it was so repetitive. Contra can suck my ass.

Another game that really pissed me off was SOCOM II. My stupid ass bravo team runs all over the place like a bunch of dumbshits after I tell them to sneak in the opposite direction. I tell them to hold place, then five minutes later I hear gun fire, hear them crying "waaa, we're takin fire," look at my map and they have moved for some reason across the screen. What the fuck, I thought I was the Sarge. Thank you very much, can I be in charge for a while!

But the worst game of all time. The fucking Sims. What on Gods green earth made this a popular game? Every week they got a new expansion pack. My girlfriend is always wasting valuable computer time with that retarded game. Yes, I want to play a game where I make my characters vacuum, cook, sleep and go to work. How retarded can you get? Vacuum your own goddamn house and make me some food. Shit. At least when she leaves it on pause I can take out all the doors then burn the kitchen down and kill all her Sims.

Of course I save it first or I wont get any.

Fuckin Sims. They will be destroyed.

drek

08-17-2006, 01:45 AM

Eldar Scrolls, both Morrowind and Oblivion. I can't stand them. Incredibly shallow games, Oblivion is actually less fun than it's incredibly unfun predecessor. I actually really like other RPGs that are also kind of sandbox-y (Gothic I & II, Fallout, Arcanum, Baldur's Gate II, for example) ... but Morrowwind and Oblivion just feel so ...fake... Playing them feels a lot like reading bad fan fiction.

Plus, Oblivion in particular has a horrible user interface.

EQ. Grind grind grind. WoW. A more popular, polished version of EQ. Hooray. Actually, most MMOs suck.

DegenCutter

08-17-2006, 01:51 AM

EQ. Grind grind grind. WoW. A more popular, polished version of EQ. Hooray. Actually, most MMOs suck.

Couldn't agree more. I can't believe it took five pages for somebody to point out the boring grindfests in which the same missions spawn over and over again. MMORPGs do indeed suck. I just don't understand how people get addicted to a game like World of Warcraft. I found it fun, for about an hour or two . . .

moondog548

08-17-2006, 02:07 AM

Ooh! Ooh! I got a good one!

Halflife 2!

Because I'm the only person in the world who doesn't enjoy trying to figure out what the fuck rube-goldberg means I'm supposed to use to get out of this deathtrap where an invincible enemy is shooting the shit out of me over and over and over in a speedboat that really wants to be upside down... and having a nice LOADING session in between each deathtrap.

Ok ok.... actually on foot the game is a freakin blast. I guess I really only hate the boat. It's just that I've been in the boat for so long (and LOADING for so long) that I can't remember life before it. :(

Pax

08-17-2006, 03:49 AM

Any and all RTS games
There's no STRATEGY - it's resource-rush then tank-rush. Where's the pincer movements? Where's the hit-and-fade? Where's the opportunity to use stuff like Scipio's Defense?

Bah!

Dungeons and Dragons Online
Hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hateHATE hate hate hate ...!!! With the fury of a billion fiery SUNS, oh how I do LOATHE this game. You mgiht say, "My hat of DDO know no limit" ... but that's an understatement of COSMIC proportions. More than God hated Sodom and Gomorrah; more than the KKK hates anyone who's not White-skinned; more than Hitler hated ... well ... everyone, I guess ...

A THOUSAND, thousand, thousand, BILLION, thousand times more than all those hates put together. That is the tiniest fraction ofa glimmer of a shadow of a hint of a thought of an IMPLICATION of how deeply I hate DDO.

...

Yeah ... I REALLY "dislike" that damned piece of utter fucking shit turbine smeared the D&D and Eberron franchises with. And by "dislike", I actually mean: the two paragraphs that precede this one ... times about fourty gazillion.

Were I able, I'd visit EVERY single biblical plague on EACH Turbine employee even tangentially responsible for DDO. Five times. Per hour. Every hour. FOR THE REST OF FUCKING ETERNITY.

*pant, pant, cough, wheeze*

... I'd say "I'm better now", but ... nope ... I'm not ... grr. :mad:

Breogan

08-17-2006, 03:59 AM

Here's another one I hate: Grand Theft Auto games.

Strange thing, I didnt had anything like that with the first 2 in 3D.

But with San Andreas, I suddenly find it exactly as you say. It makes no sense, cause is the same engine.

How did I overlook all that in the first 2?

Breogan

08-17-2006, 04:04 AM

Pax

08-17-2006, 04:34 AM

Hey Pax... care to slow down and detail the reason of your limitless hat of it

Cause I see it on the shelf and kind of think about getting it, then dont do it... so give me good reasons to never ever think about doing it.
Oh, let me COUNT the ways ... the bitter, ACRID, stinking ways ... and try to dredge these up, past the BLOCKS I have tried to erect around my memories of this utterly SHITTY so-called "game" ...

Utter failure to remain true to fundamental precepts of Eberron - for example, there are no fucking "foundries" in the world mass-producing Warforged ...yet Turbine wrote exactly such a place, into the big adventure series of Update 1. And then didn't even name the guy in charge of it "d'Cannith" ... despite that ONLY House Cannith knows how to make 'forged.
Omitting signature Eberron elements - Dragonmarks, especially. Also most of the Dragonmark Houses weren't in, at Launch ...
Omitting the Artificer, and Item Creation - claiming they "couldn't balance" item creation. FFS, magicitems DROP at about ten times D&D-standard rates; just use D&D's item creation rules and be fucking DONE with it already.
No druids - animal companions were "too hard to balance" (what's to friggin' balance? it's a gorram WOLF or something, if it dies, it doesn't come back until the Druid uses a Rez Shrine, or visits a Tavern!
No NPC spellcasters-for-hire to remove Curses and the like - they'll cast True Resurrection for free, an unlimited number of times ... but won't let you pay 'em a couple undred gold pieces for a LOWER-level spell, nope ... :rolleyes:
NO. SOLO. CONTENT. Sometimes you just don't HAVE thirty or fourty minutes to spend looking for a team. Sometimes you just want to go hack things ALONE for a while. But in DDO - das ist verboten (Update 2 may have changed it SLIGHTLY - but .... I doubt it.)
No Monks. Somehow, they couldn't figure out how to do unarmed combat. (Is animating a punch and a kick THAT hard?)
Warforged racial penalties retained in full, but their advantages ... gone. Poof. Like an Arizona fucking frost. You have to use up (all) of your goddamn "Enhancements" to get 'em back - while the other races are using said sameEnhancements to get stronger than ever before. BAH.
No domains for Clerics. No choosing a Deity / Church, either. Despite a WEALTH of them in the ECS ... none but the Silver Flame are even _mentioned_.
Several spells are "find only", as in, find scrolls of them as treasure - with no chance to learn them as part of levelling up. Thus, Sorcerors have LESS CHOICES than Wizards. We're NOT talking things like Rary' Mnemonic enhancer, here. We're talking stuff on teh order of Cone of Cold, or similar.
NPCs who don't use the same mechanics as PCs - especially noticable for spellcasters. NO spellpoitn limitation (unlike PCs), and NO cooldown (unlike PCs). Picture in a D&D game, if your GM gave EVERY enemy spellcaster infinite spellpoints, and automatically quickened spells. When you're level three! Having Kobold Shamans spam Blindness at you once a second, without limit ... is not my friggin' idea of fun. (and when they were infinitely spamming Bestow Curse, while listed as CR3? Boy, was THAT "fun" ... not!!!)
Speaking of Challenge Ratings ... you don't get XP for individual encounters, just for the end of each "quest". And that XP is the same, no matter how MANY or how FEW people are in the party. So ... if a quest is rated for 2,000XP, and you solo it? 2KXP. Do it with a max team of six? 2KXP - each. Makes no goddamned sense. XP is supposed to be proportional to CHALLENGE - but it's best to find the biggest teams you can, making your missions as EASY as possible with no hit to XP earned.
No prestige classes.
No Shifters - an eberron-specific race.
No Gnomes. I mean, come on ... gnomes ...! WTF?
No half-elves, either. NFC why not.
No Changelings, too. Another ECS race left by the wayside.
Absolute, inescusable DEARTH of spells. Not even half the PHB spells are in there - and a lot of what's omitted could have been rendered with GREATER accuracy than some of the stuff they DID put in (Chill Touch in DDO is nothing like the PHB version)

Two months ago, that list'd be about twice as long. But that's all I can - or WANT to - remember, at the moment.

Remembered another one: LUGHABLE AMOUNT OF CONTENT. Some people were all the way to the then-level cap of 10, in TWO WEEKS. Even as a casual player with a half-dozen alts, I was almost HALFway there on MULTIPLE of them, within THREE weeks. And since EVERY character sees EVERY scrap of content ....? Rolling a new alt didn't let you "pick a different path", to see different content on the way.

BAH.

Breogan

08-17-2006, 04:45 AM

Thanks.

A lot of your reasons mean nothing to me as I'm D&D ignorant (I only know what I get from CRPG using it... yep, I didnt cut my roleplaying teeth with it) and know nothing about Eberron...

But things like getting the whole content in 2 weeks... its me or we are paying the same for less this days?

Mortimer

08-17-2006, 04:50 AM

Grand Theft Auto series.

Pax

08-17-2006, 04:52 AM

A lot of your reasons mean nothing to me as I'm D&D ignorant (I only know what I get from CRPG using it... yep, I didnt cut my roleplaying teeth with it) and know nothing about Eberron...
Then you might enjoy it for a while; with the limited content, though, I'd still say "find it in a bargain bin or don't bother".

Asmodai

08-17-2006, 05:09 AM

Just About Any Online Game Ever

They all are designed to reward people with infinite time. I was about to make a disparaging comment about 12 year olds, but they're not the problem. They still have school and parents, etc.

It's the people - I know quite a few from people I went to high school with - who sit around and play MMO's 16 hours a day plus and collect unemployment/welfare.

What's worse is that most MMO games seem to market their product to these people. Ugh.

Camper Strike is up there too.

Just about every new first person shooter. They rely so heavily and flash and scripting that there's a paucity for content. Doom II kept me busy for months. Half Life 2 about a weekend or two. It's a great time, but there's a limit to how much you can replay the same scripted missions (I still keep playing the boat and car parts though).

3rd person 3D platformers - control and camera issues. Metal Gear Solid III was bad for this. I bought MGSII reissued which supposedly fixed the camera issues, and it still kept me from seeing what I was doing. So annoying to keep pressing a button just so I can look ahead. Oddly, the original MGS for the PS1 never seemed to have this problem. I credit intelligent level design in the first MGS and a lack of same in the 3rd.

Xenosaga lost me in the elevator part. Just got bored. The puzzle was probably easily solved, but it took about 30 minutes of combat just to try anything. Plus the story never seemed to go anywhere.'

NWN - I tried going back to it after quitting WoW and the content just seemed kinda boring and hollow. It's hard to put an exact word on it. The scripts and level building just seemed too transparent. I enjoyed it the first time round though.

RTS'. Mainly because the strategy consists of memorizing build orders and then clicking faster than your opponent.

I'm sure there are others. I'm tough to please when it comes to video games.

Kahnol

08-17-2006, 06:00 AM

I dunno if listing my hat for specific genres of games would be kosher to the thread, so I'll try to keep as on-point as possible.

The Myst series. Point-and-click adventure games can be a lot of fun when they're done right. Myst was not done right. I'd spend hours and hours wandering around the pretty pretty landscapes pulling the cursor over everything desperarely trying to divine what I was supposed to do next. UGH.

Also, the Sims. Those games just never felt like they had much of a point beyond slaughtering untold numbers of helpless Simpeople. The endless barrage of expansion packs left a sour taste in my mouth too.

Jigglypuff

08-17-2006, 06:03 AM

The Myst series. Point-and-click adventure games can be a lot of fun when they're done right. Myst was not done right. I'd spend hours and hours wandering around the pretty pretty landscapes pulling the cursor over everything desperarely trying to divine what I was supposed to do next. UGH.

Ohh yes I forgot about those LAME games. I remember my friends telling me I must try Myst it's the greatest game ever created. While over one of their houses I was forced to play and my impression was "Wow this sucks!'. I think I was an outcast with my friends for a bit after speaking those words...

Wizdoc

08-17-2006, 06:09 AM

Benny the Gnome Bard

08-17-2006, 06:27 AM

Halo series
Grand theft auto series.

No particular reason, they just grate on me.

Mostlyjoe

08-17-2006, 06:50 AM

Devil May Cry - *yawn*

Halo - *why?*

There are a lot of 'cool' cames that get sequalized beyond reason. I stop playing when they just turn it into a money machine.

Garry G

08-17-2006, 07:03 AM

Halo and Halo 2

Lame story, completely uninspired monsters, boring weapons and characters with a personality of a two-by-four. Halo 2 was even worse as it ended in a complete fuck you of a cliffhanger.

But you played all the way through to the complete fuck you cliffhanger ending?:confused:

Silent Wayfarer

08-17-2006, 08:07 AM

Baldur's Gate series.

BG1:My friend pumped me on this and told me that it was the be-all end-all of rock and awesome, so I shelled out over a week's allowance to buy it.

Then I found out that you died with appalling ease, you start as a sucky level 1, the graphics are made of fail and AIDS... and the storyline was boring and none of the characters (except MINSC!!!!!!) stood out to me.

BG2: Same friend psyched me up on it, so I borrowed a copy from him. Turned out that it was more of the same, except now that you get raped by enemies about 10x more powerful than the first one, in the same numbers, casting evil disabling spells.

Also, BG2 was meh, with the exception of Minsc.

Both games: Filled with traps, bloody annoying traps, that necessitate me having to crawl around the screen with my rogue praying that I didn't fail a Find Traps roll and get horribly killed. The fact that I'm not a tactical person to begin with makes the fact that both games rape you with dozens of AI opponents in real-time a frustrating experience.

The only thing I liked about the series was Minsc and the item description. The gameplay sucked, the music sucked, the story sucked, the world sucked, the enemies sucked AND blew, and generally I would be happier smashing my testicles with a hammer than playing either of them again.

Samaritan

08-17-2006, 08:08 AM

GTA: San Andreas. I just can't get into any game that pimps the 'gangsta' lifestyle. I don't know why. It's not the violence; I don't really have an issue with violence in videogames.

Halo 2. It was... lackluster... I thought, as a FPS. I know the online component is supposed to be the end-all be-all of gaming, but I just failed to see what the whole hub-bub was about. (And, yeah, I played to the end).

Jay

08-17-2006, 08:13 AM

http://home.comcast.net/~youngfreud/Necroposting.jpg

As an aside, I'll also add to my post, 2 years ago, that the rising costs of game production have also had a large hand in the shortening of the length of games.

IceShadow

08-17-2006, 08:22 AM

Myst, Chrono Cross, Neverwinter Nights. I started them, and got bored 10 minutes into playing. A couple I went back and slogged at for a good half hour or hour, but then just got bored again and gave up.

Peers

08-17-2006, 08:46 AM

Most MMORPGs, I can't get into. CoH excepted, and even then I haven't played in a while.

Most JRPGs. I'm much more a 'western-style' Oblivion/Fallout RPG-style gamer. If I wanted an animated movie, I'd watch an animated movie.

And, oddly enough, I don't like 'arcade-y' FPSs. Which seems strange for a guy brought up on Duke 3D, but I find I prefer them to be more realistic... for certain values of 'realistic', I guess.

Sinclair

08-17-2006, 09:34 AM

The Resident Evil games. Yeah, camera angles that change seemingly at random are reeeeeaallll fun. Fear shouldn't be derived from "what if a zombie attacks me and the camera angle won't let me deal with it". Also great: Puzzles that make no sense.

RE4 wasn't much better. OK, so your government agent... Can't walk and shoot at the same time. The controls were pretty ass. OK, so it was better for combat than RE4. Not many games aren't.

Wizdoc

08-17-2006, 09:38 AM

But you played all the way through to the complete fuck you cliffhanger ending?:confused:

A weekend in the middle of nowhere with relatives + constant blizzard + XBox with Halo & Halo 2 = not much choice to kill time.

Manaran

08-17-2006, 09:56 AM

JRPGs. God, do I ever hate them. Press A to advance the plot! Spend hours running back and forth to level to watch some more cut scenes!

The combat systems are generally boring, even for those games like Tales of Symphonia which go all out trying to create something new. The plots are interesting, but not interesting enough to justify forty hours of lame random battles.

Also, Halo and Halo 2. The single player versions of these games were merely alright. Adequate, even. While I don't really hate them, the amount of praise people give them turns my casual enjoyment of them bitter.

Peter LaCara

08-17-2006, 10:03 AM

Gah. All of you are such haters. There hasn't been a single game I've played that's been mentioned on this thread that I've disliked. Well, maybe Mario 64, but that's more because I'm really, really bad at it than any sort of regard to game design.

I've disliked some games in the past. Darkwatch comes immediately to mind, as does one of the many Medal of Honor games. But jeez... disliking Halo? Resident Evil? Zelda?!?! My god, I can't fathom disliking Zelda.

You people make no sense to me.

GrimGent

08-17-2006, 10:09 AM

JRPGs. God, do I ever hate them. Press A to advance the plot!"Now, shush, while I advance the plot." --Knights of Xentar.

Hey, at least the game was honest about it.

Masked Cucumber

08-17-2006, 10:22 AM

Prince of Persia.

I despise jumping puzzles, especially when you HAVE to succeed at one in order to go further in the game.

Myst

BORING and TEDIOUS are words that come to mind when I think of that game and its successors.

I remain,

The Masked Cucumber

The SkaerKrow

08-17-2006, 10:55 AM

Kingdom Hearts. Though we're in councilling at this point. I find it sad that Square couldn't spend time on the gameplay, and instead invested everything in the graphics and presentation.

NFL Street 2. The first NFL Street was pretty decent. Instead of enriching the experience of the original game in the sequel, they tacked on a bunch of BS that basically ruined the flow and balance of the game. It was a massive disappointment.

Baldur's Gate II. Too dry. I definitely appreciate a good narrative, but BG2 just seemed overly long-winded and short on actual gameplay.

Mario and Zelda 64. Neither was really any good, and Zelda 64 was inferior to Link to the Past in every conceivable way.

Disgaea. Make the grinding stop!!!

WarCraft and its Benighted Spawn. It's unfortunate that when someone says "RTS" they're usually referring to one of these crapfests. I think all strategy gamers need to receive a compulsory copy of a Total War game in the mail as a public service.

Vagrant Story. Yeah, I hated Vagrant Story. Pretty much had the same problem with it that I do with Kingdom Hearts. "Risk" Meter my ass.

Metal Gear Solid. But I hate Stealth Games in general.

Final Fantasy 8. But I suppose after seven sequels, one of them had to turn out to be crap.

Masked Cucumber

08-17-2006, 10:59 AM

(snip)
Final Fantasy 8. But I suppose after seven sequels, one of them had to turn out to be crap.

As far as I am concerned, FFVIII was nowhere as bad as FFII. FFII was horrifyingly bad. FFVIII at the very least had passable graphics for the time.

Gods, I still hate FFII's experience system and awful save points located hours (real time) apart.

I remain,

The Masked Cucumber

Orpheus

08-17-2006, 11:07 AM

I thought Final Fantasy VIII was the best out of the lot. Well the ones i played anyway (7, 8 ,9 ,10 and 10-2) Meh

Unreal Tournament - Its like Quake 3 Arena only without the speed, the guns or the awesome. And the 2000 series isn't much better.

WoW - Dull, unispiring, generic MMO. Like the rest of them but with night elves. Oh Yay!

Deus Ex: Invisible War - It tried so hard, and failed so miserably.

Fable, Black and White - I just don;t get whats so appealing about wondering around worlds with stunted stories, and crappy personalities. Just because i can move my character along a sliding scale from good to evil. And oh look he changes aswell.

Neverwinter Nights - Pretty good game, horrible story. I expected alot more.

Gran Turismo - I DON'T WANT TO SPEND EIGHT HOURS GETTING LICENCES SO I CAN DRIVE A SODDING TRANSIT!

The fact that I'm not a tactical person to begin with makes the fact that both games rape you with dozens of AI opponents in real-time a frustrating experience.

You know you can pause it and still give commands for a reason

The SkaerKrow

08-17-2006, 11:08 AM

Gods, I still hate FFII's experience system and awful save points located hours (real time) apart.

To be clear, we're talking about Final Fantasy II and not Final Fantasy IV, right? If that's the case, you just saved me from playing through the second half of Final Fantasy Origins.

Samaritan

08-17-2006, 11:15 AM

Oh, yeah, Ninja Gaiden for the Xbox. Eye-stabbingly frustrating. I haven't tried the 'Black' updated release, yet, so maybe the 'Ninja Dog' setting won't be so bad...

Breogan

08-17-2006, 11:15 AM

Disgaea. Make the grinding stop!!!

Son, grinding IS the game. The game IS grinding. There is no stop of grinding, unless you stop the game.

Admitelly, it should say it somewhere in the cover. "THIS GAME IS GRINDING, AND GRINDING IS THE GAME" so nobody makes assumptions about it being something more.

Its enjoyable grinding if you like it, but like drinking a whole mug of honey in one gulp, it can be sickenly sweet.

Old Geezer

08-17-2006, 11:19 AM

I loved Myst and still do. And I mean "love" as in "lifetime committed relationship".

FPS bore me. Watched somebody play DOOM for about ten minutes and went "well, that looks bloody awful".

Morrowind. I sunk about forty hours into that game. Okay, it's pretty - but "sandbox" RPGs are fun table-top BECAUSE OF THE HUMAN INTERACTION! Morrowind has the most boring NPCs ever. Even Baldur's Gate 1 is more interesting.

Speaking of BG1 - I'm twelve hours into THAT fucker and still first level, which is when I bailed.

And don't get me STARTED on Star Wars Galaxies.

Breogan

08-17-2006, 11:22 AM

Morrowind. I sunk about forty hours into that game. Okay, it's pretty - but "sandbox" RPGs are fun table-top BECAUSE OF THE HUMAN INTERACTION! Morrowind has the most boring NPCs ever. Even Baldur's Gate 1 is more interesting.

Morrowind, a.k.a "watch your avatar butt for hours"

CodexArcanum

08-17-2006, 11:26 AM

All MMOs. I just find them utterly boring.

Halo. I don't hate it, but it was a mediocre shooter. I guess if all you play is consoles, the fact that there have waves of far better shooters on PC might have been missed by some people. I mostly hate all the hype it gets.

Unreal Tournament - Its like Quake 3 Arena only without the speed, the guns or the awesome. And the 2000 series isn't much better.

Amusingly enough, I was going to say that Q3A was just UT with bad level design, poor graphics, dull characters, and unbalanced guns. But hey, I'm a big UT fanboy and everyone's entitled to their (horribly wrong) opinions. :D

Whoever said that Warcraft was bad, I partially agree. Warcraft 1 and 2 I enjoyed a lot, and having many years later gotten to play the competetion (Command and Conquer), I definately think that the WC games were superior. WC3, however, is just a steaming pile. It's a testament to how awesome Blizzard's stories are that I played through it all the way. It's a testament to how great the fans are that I played WC3 online a ton, solely for the Tower Defense maps.

Starcraft I liked, but it is overhyped. Total Annihilation is much better (still the RTS king, baby! At least until Supreme Commander).

Japanese "RPGs"? Seconded. Those two-bit adventure games with menu driven battles and hours of narration couldn't get more boring if they tried. I think Square hit the pinnacle of the genre with The Bouncer. As one friend put it, "One the most enjoyable movies I ever played." At least until Xenosaga came along and put other games to shame with bad gameplay, lame characters, AND hours and hours of pointless cutscenes and dialogue.

And yet I'm still looking forward to Final Fantasy 13 because it just looks so badass.

Samaritan

08-17-2006, 11:28 AM

Halo. I don't hate it, but it was a mediocre shooter. I guess if all you play is consoles, the fact that there have waves of far better shooters on PC might have been missed by some people. I mostly hate all the hype it gets.

I think that was my issue with it. It was so utterly hyped as a thing of brilliance, and it was... just a FPS. Really. I enjoyed TimeSplitters 3 MUCH more, and it got decent reviews, compared to the golden coverage that Halo 2 got.

alexandria2000

08-17-2006, 11:29 AM

Final Fantasy.

Any of them. I hit serious boredom after several hours of *fight fight fight* just to get down the road and then 'ooh level' - here, have some narrative as a reward. And having to command several chars at once doing this? Gah. NO.

Takes. Too. Long. I don't *hate* it - it's more "could I be doing something else right now? Yep, I'll go do that instead" sort of thing.

And do NOT get me started on blitzball.

Kingdom Hearts: Same thing, plus the atrocious handling engine of the first - especially that - had me throwing the controller at the wall in Wonderland. Never played the thing again. Tried KH2 - when the opening games are too damn difficult to complete, forget it!

Malestrithe

08-17-2006, 11:39 AM

Valkyrie Profile

I have nothing wrong with the graphics and the fighting system. I have no problems with the plot elements, and I love the well developed characters. What I have problems with is the A ending. The way to get to that ending was too nitpicky: you have to do this, but not that, you must go here in the right act and you can't do it earlier or else it won't work for you. If you did it right, you can see the A ending. After all that build up, I thought the pay off was not good.

Masked Cucumber

08-17-2006, 11:45 AM

To be clear, we're talking about Final Fantasy II and not Final Fantasy IV, right? If that's the case, you just saved me from playing through the second half of Final Fantasy Origins.

Yes. A friend of mine who has been playing FF since a long time once explained the difference to me ("yes, we are talking about FFII Japan here and not FFII North America which was FFIV in Japan... blah blah blah blah" (or something to that effect). My answer: ARGH I still hate it).

It has by far the worse experience system ever. Basically, it is better, in combat, to attack yourself than to attack the monster since you will go up faster. For example, your hit points will go up if you go down in hit points and get almost to 0. In other words, healing your characters is a bad idea. Furthermore, the save points are very far apart. This is worse in dungeons where you go down multiple levels to reach the boss without being able to save. I once lost four hours of play because I could not find a save point before getting killed. It is an awful game and the worse one of the bunch. Many of us were hoping that Square Enix would revisit the game when they ported it to the GBA. They did not.

I remain,

The Masked Cucumber

Heronymus

08-17-2006, 12:01 PM

Fortinbras

08-17-2006, 12:02 PM

The only game I can think of that I Hate is Prince of Persia: Warrior Within. And even then, there are some good parts. I think the only reason I hated it was because I had this weird masochistic compulsion to beat it before I played the third one, (which was much better, if not as good as the first).

I was disappointed with Splinter Cell. I really like stealth games (I love the Tenchu games, and Thief is one of my favorite series ever), but this one just didn't work for me. It felt way too linear, as if there was only one way to get through any section of game (at least without getting into a big firefight and just killing everyone). I never even got through the first mission.

I kind of hope that the later two are better, mostly because the multi-player on Pandora Tomorrow sounds awesome, but I'm not willing to pick up the game just for the multi-player. Still haven't gotten around to checking, though.

Sternum

08-17-2006, 12:06 PM

I can't play RTS games that require resource gathering. As much as I wanted to get into StartCraft or WarCraft, I hated harvesting wood/minerals and issuing build queues. It didn't help that I was lousy at it, and that even computer armies on easy could pound my base into paste before I'd even gotten a decent army manufactured.

In my opinion, Myth II: Soulblighter remains the undisputed king of RTS games. No resources, no buildings. Just strategy and killing.

Samaritan

08-17-2006, 12:06 PM

I was disappointed with Splinter Cell. I really like stealth games (I love the Tenchu games, and Thief is one of my favorite series ever), but this one just didn't work for me. It felt way too linear, as if there was only one way to get through any section of game (at least without getting into a big firefight and just killing everyone). I never even got through the first mission.

I kind of hope that the later two are better, mostly because the multi-player on Pandora Tomorrow sounds awesome, but I'm not willing to pick up the game just for the multi-player. Still haven't gotten around to checking, though.

The first SC, you mean? I got to the Chinese Embassy, then was so frustrated I sold the game. Pandora Tomorrow WAS much better- and Chaos Theory moreso, if for no other reason that you could save anywhere.

Crazy-Cabal

08-17-2006, 12:08 PM

Warcraft 3- Sweet jesus, if you're going to rehash the storyline from Starcraft with stupid elves atleast make the gameplay interesting! Why the hell do I suddenly have to micromanage every god damn grunt when I could just send a mob of them in WC2 and they'd do alright for themselves?!

And back to that storyline, did we HAVE to sit through all the retarded horde missions?! If I wanted to watch Roots in Greenface I would put in the DVD and fiddle with the color contrast...

Half-Life 2- That's it? You follow up one of the best FPS games of the era, spend FIVE YEARS in development, sink Vamp Bloodlines AND Troika with your tech contract, and that's ALL you've come up with? A lifter gun does not make up for lack of interesting new gameplay!

City of Heros/Villians- Call me when you have more to offer than fighting gangers in caves/warehouses/office buildings.

alexandria2000

08-17-2006, 12:11 PM

What she said. Only with more bitter.

And this from a person who likes CoH. At least I can do a mission and log off. I can choose a beginning and an end to my play that day.

With FF, it's more of....'okay, WHEN do I get a solid mission, or do I just keep killing things until they grace me with some info?'

Orpheus

08-17-2006, 12:18 PM

The first half of Bloodlines was better then the best Valve could come up with in Half-Life 2 IMO Shame Trioka didn't have the time or investment to pull it off all the way to the end.

Alfonzo

08-17-2006, 12:27 PM

Anything Blizzard has ever made.

The Halo games. The first few levels of 2 were fun, but everything else was horrible.

Final Fantasy 7. I uninstalled it after struggling through the endless cutscenes in the first 30 or so minutes. I was hoping to play a game, not watch a crappy movie.

Come to think of it pretty much every FF game except 6, which is probably because it was the first CRPG I played and it was fun because it was new.

Metroid Prime Hunters left me nonplussed, but I suppose I don't hate it.

Those Donkey Kong games for the SNES for the same reasons someone mentioned above.

3D platformers, anything else with shitty camera control where you have to know where you are.

Any FPS on a console. I just can't make my fingers work that dual analog thing. Exception: Perfect Dark (C buttons instead of second analog stick)

Any Sonic game past Sonic 2, which is really a shame since Sonic 2 is one of my favorite games ever.

Neverwinter Nights. Installed it. Played through crappy training with crappy controls....ZOMG we're being attacked!!! Tried expansion. ZOMG we're being attacked!!!! Uninstalled.

Super Smash Brothers Melee. Can't seem to get the hang of this one. Repeatedly getting my ass kicked when my friends refused to play anything else made me hate it.

Any Tekken game.

Streetfighter 2. Gaaaahhhh.

Man, I hate a lot of games.

drek

08-17-2006, 12:38 PM

In my opinion, Myth II: Soulblighter remains the undisputed king of RTS games. No resources, no buildings. Just strategy and killing.

Sorry to ruin the hatefest, but I had to agree with the above. That's my all time favorite RTS as well. Bungie.net kicked ass back in the days before MS-Halo.

Halo sucked.

The SkaerKrow

08-17-2006, 01:00 PM

Fortinbras

08-17-2006, 01:01 PM

The first SC, you mean? I got to the Chinese Embassy, then was so frustrated I sold the game. Pandora Tomorrow WAS much better- and Chaos Theory moreso, if for no other reason that you could save anywhere.

Yeah, I specifically meant the first one. Cool, I may have to try one of the later ones, then.

egamad

08-17-2006, 01:04 PM

Tetris. Mother of all puzzle games my ass.

CodexArcanum

08-17-2006, 01:10 PM

Tetris. Mother of all puzzle games my ass.

Speaking of: Lumines.

I mean, it's a weak tetris clone with music and pretty lights. It's like the perfect, condensed form of everything wrong with the game's industry: let's take the same old games, put eXtreme new graphics and sound on them, and resell them for $40.

alexandria2000

08-17-2006, 01:11 PM

My Love/Hate must go to Virtua Fighter 2.

Fuck you, Kage, or whatever the hell you were named. Fuck you with a chainsaw, you little ninja twink.

IceShadow

08-17-2006, 01:21 PM

Just a quick bit for anyone that has Neverwinter Nights sitting on a shelf somewhere; I too bought the game, tried playing the built in module and ended up uninstalling the game post-haste for being uninspired drek. Oh a whim I picked up the NWN Diamond pack last week, and while the built-in module is still pure ass, the Witch's Wake module showed me that the game was capable of a lot more than the weak experience provided by the default campaign. I imagine that there have to be some user created modules out there that also manage to present a compelling game instead of another rehash of Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale.

Y'know, just in case anyone wanted to get some play out of what is otherwise an Official BioWare Coaster.

I don't have the time to sit for an hour or two to search the internet for fan-made modules, slag through everything, find one or two that sound interesting, then run at them for a couple hours each to see if I'll enjoy it.

If the basic game isn't good enough, I'm going to pass on any fan-made modules, even if they can do a lot with it...unless I have specific suggestions on things that sound interesting.

I put a good 3-4 hours trying to figure out the interface for the Firefly one, which is why I bought NWN in the first place, and while I can see its utility as an online campaign runner, I just don't have the time to try and look through and rate everything myself.

I'll just go back to games I know I enjoy, like KotOR or WoW.

Fugitive Unknown

08-17-2006, 01:25 PM

Yes, in Diablo II, you too can play 'click the pallette-swapped monster' over and over again until you get the item you're looking for or, more likely, die of old fucking age because Blizzard forgot to adjust the drop probabilities based on the human lifespan. They also forgot to include a game.

Jeezy-creezy. Why couldn't they have made a GUI and a few changes on Angband and called it a day? Woulda been faster, cheaper, and better.

The pre-patch paladin was cool, though. With an extra-fast weapon and 15 or so in Zeal, you could tear shit up.

I remember this little game someone made to make fun Diablo called "Clickmaster".. you had to click the center of the screen, which would gain you experience, which would raise a bunch of attributes that did aboslutely nothing. The game would display messages like..

"By the gods man, I've not seen such clicking!"
"You face the same monster you fight in every other dungeon, only it's blue" (or purple, or white, or gold)
"You come to an area just like the one you were in before, only a little different."

Yup, that's diablo all right

Samaritan

08-17-2006, 01:28 PM

I put a good 3-4 hours trying to figure out the interface for the Firefly one, which is why I bought NWN in the first place, and while I can see its utility as an online campaign runner, I just don't have the time to try and look through and rate everything myself.

I'll just go back to games I know I enjoy, like KotOR or WoW.

Where was this Firefly module of which you speak?

IceShadow

08-17-2006, 01:32 PM

Where was this Firefly module of which you speak?

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=4030

don't ask me how to install, run, or play it. :p

Heronymus

08-17-2006, 01:45 PM

And this from a person who likes CoH. At least I can do a mission and log off. I can choose a beginning and an end to my play that day.

With FF, it's more of....'okay, WHEN do I get a solid mission, or do I just keep killing things until they grace me with some info?'

Whereas, I can't stand MMOs, mostly because other people drive me batty. Also, grinding sucks.

GrimGent

08-17-2006, 01:45 PM

I remember this little game someone made to make fun Diablo called "Clickmaster"..That sounds only marginally more interactive than Progress Quest (http://www.progressquest.com/).

Jaelra

08-17-2006, 03:29 PM

MMOs. I wanna start out with a cool character, not hope to someday be cool while I kill rats and bugs for a while.

That's the only one really.

darktalon

08-17-2006, 03:35 PM

Grand Theft Auto - I really want to like these games I really do.. I own all of them except San Andreas. [...] Why is it when a gang goes to war with me they can shoot the crap out of me but soon as I fire here comes the cops to bust me!

San Andreas does fix this to an extent. I've lost count of the number of times a shootout between the cops and rival gangsters gave me a chance to leg it before being shot to fuck by either.

IceShadow

08-17-2006, 03:37 PM

MMOs. I wanna start out with a cool character, not hope to someday be cool while I kill rats and bugs for a while.

That's the only one really.

WoW doesn't have you killing rats or bugs at the beginning. (You don't get Silithids until level 20ish, I'd say.) You start off killing other humanoids, and gigantic animals, usually. That said, you still have to earn most of your powers before you feel badass.

Bradford C. Walker

08-17-2006, 03:43 PM

WoW doesn't have you killing rats or bugs at the beginning. (You don't get Silithids until level 20ish, I'd say.) You start off killing other humanoids, and gigantic animals, usually. That said, you still have to earn most of your powers before you feel badass.
Not that it takes long before you get a good approximation of that power. It took me only 19 days of playing about 4-6 hours (evenings with my pals) to get to 30th level; my character will hit 44th today (Had a few breaks in play here and there, and levels take longer to get as you get higher) and will be 45-46 before the end of the month. (After that, school starts and my time on WoW will drop, slowing my progression to 60.)

woodsmoke

08-17-2006, 03:54 PM

Even at high levels, though, progression isn't too terribly slow. I managed to increase my 52 hunter to 53 last night running a few quests in Un'Goro--most of which were simultaneously doable.

martikhoras

08-17-2006, 04:40 PM

Ya know what I can buy disliking the 64 Zeldas.

I really totally can. Zelda 1's Hyrule felt much bigger than Ocarina's and the warp songs were an admission stuff was designed wrong. The Time Travel element was poorly utilized and stuff just happens in a way thats a bit off and weird. I would have preferred more shortcuts, that would have made greater sense and even fit with the Zelda theme. Also OoT did the obsoleting half of your inventory/accomplishment up to this point thing with the "twist" that was a cheat you couldn't avoid. The rails are rather visible on the plot if you explore but if you don't explore you miss things and the game has things in it that circumnavigate stuff.
It was awesome but it had flaws and I could see these flaws highly undermining the enjoyment (I mean a zelda game with virtually NO overworld monsters? townsfolk who have barely any impact or side quests?)

But how could you say that for Majora's Mask, they fixed damned near everything PLUS opened up different levels of gameplay. More character interaction, refined graphics, time travel all over and about. It took OoT and refined it wonderfully and added a cute collect-it subsystem that rewarded your dedication and opened all sorts of gameplay. It even made something I normally would dislike character interactive fetchquests and made it easy with an ingame aid. All this *and* you could make the game as hard or as difficult as you wanted. speed runs, low hearts, etc.

I mean not liking Zelda, sure, but hating it? It does action rpgs right, in my opinion. One of the few series that does. Now AoL-hate I can get. I beat LttP before I beat that thing and it was a bitch and hated you and wanted you to die and get Fs in all your classes then pose your corpse in frilly lingerie for all to see.

But hating the entire series... after 1? Man that's wrong to me.

Ikselam

08-17-2006, 05:17 PM

I don't like Baldur's Gate 2, despite the fact that I played through it twice. It had ugly graphics, gameplay that managed to be both uninteresting and frustrating hard at times, and most of the characters annoyed the hell out of me. Minsc's schtick wore thin pretty damn fast.

I'm not sure Thief was ever immensely popular, but it was one of those games that all the cool kids were playing. If crouching in shadows for five minutes at a time, your finger hovering over the reload button in case a guard spots you, while getting thoroughly lost in purposely-confusing levels, is what it takes to be a cool kid, I don't want to be one.

LeumasWhite

08-17-2006, 05:57 PM

Baldur's Gate series, MMOs, the twitchier RTS and FPS games. Knights of the Old Republic is fun, but it's not that fun. Gran Turismo is the most frustrating game I have ever played. Fallout 1 is also pretty bland, but I love 2. Any rhythm game except Guitar Hero. Fighting games. Civilization 3 and 4.

The big one, though, is Vagrant Story. Normally, I can at least understand why people might like a game, even if it's not my particular thing. But I really don't get it for this... awkward combat, weak animations, terrible controls and poor level design. I don't get it.

Prodigal Python

08-17-2006, 10:41 PM

Never liked the Warcraft games. I'd spend three hours building a base and raising an army...which the computer would destroy utterly in about ten minutes. Really drove home the fact that I was wasting hours of my life playing a game.

I also didn't think much of San Andreas. I just don't find the zany exploits of ignorant thugs and remorseless killers to be entertaining. The missions were repetitive and frustrating, but you had to do them or you wouldn't be allowed to sample everything that the "sandbox" had to offer.

I also don't like games where we are expected to cheer for a character who is a complete a-hole. Trane in "Mark Ecko's Getting Up", Ram in "Total Overdose", the protagonist of "Tony Hawk's American Wasteland". Playing by your own rules was cute when B-Movie cops did it in the 80s, but it's not cute anymore. Smarten up and get a decent haircut, you video game jackass.

Jigglypuff

08-17-2006, 10:50 PM

But hating the entire series... after 1? Man that's wrong to me.

I was one of the Zelda haters in this thread (mainly the 64's) but I think Link to the past is the best. I bought my SNES specifically for that game and it ruled! Hopefully the new Zelda will restore all my faith in the game series.

What wonders me though is some of you listed some pretty broad spectrums of games. Which brings to question do you hate every game you play? Or just like me and find something to hate about everything =)

martikhoras

08-17-2006, 11:43 PM

I was one of the Zelda haters in this thread (mainly the 64's) but I think Link to the past is the best. I bought my SNES specifically for that game and it ruled! Hopefully the new Zelda will restore all my faith in the game series.

What wonders me though is some of you listed some pretty broad spectrums of games. Which brings to question do you hate every game you play? Or just like me and find something to hate about everything =)
Its not even so much the Fighters themselves but what I blame them for doing. They completely knocked out almost all other games in arcades (whether 'real' one or a basic row at a bar/bowling alley) and they tend to be enormous quarter munchers. Also, well they are immensely popular but seem to operate in a way I can't handle, aside from YEARS of SF II: Turbo I royally suck. Feels heavily unintuitive and difficult to be good at. Plus it seems you always come across guys who could annihilate you no matter how hard you try and trying was expensive or involved too much dedication. Like I said, too much work, for a game.

I'm not much of a lightgun fan but I can generally pick one up and be semi-decent at it. Ditto platformers or side-scrolling fighters. Yeah they tend to be cheapass but at least the scenery and story changes and they give you a variety of kickass stuff if you play them right. Also there seems alot of variety there.

fighters, go to arena, beat the other guy and hope it works out.... just hard for me to get into and the fact this unappealing presentation of a game, sometimes with awesome elements that never pass over elsewhere , dominates everywhere you go killing and absorbing other genres.

Also they are popular and hard to avoid in fan conventions and circles. You wanna know *something* about the thing but you need to be good at it to try. Mostly I know I don't wanna pay alot of money a month to play so I don't resent MMORPGs or try them, even with all the issues they cause for my local university's game club.

3D fighters was something I never got into, I didn't like the fighter genre and was waay disliking the look of the 3D graphics nor felt they were implemented well aside from "oooh, shiny." Tekken, for instance, felt impossibly hard to control. Life without fireballs was difficult too.

Hmm, I didn't hate OoT just I could understand someone having a problem with it. I am aware of its flaws but love it all the same, though I suppose if there was a decent action rpg competitor I wouldn't be as accepting but there are none. They come ever so often from Square as an experiment and then quickly get abandoned. Zelda has been keeping the torch for me. I am surprised you didn't care for MM. I mean that game took everything about OoT and made it better. Heck it had elements for a number of games at once. Like the Scent Mask! heh, Zelda did the vaporware WtA game better in just bits and peices of their "kiddie" game! The trip to the spectre invested Ikana Canyon. sword fights were lacking but full of character. And not half your songs were mere travel spells. The variety of masks and the effort in getting them. Plus the game made you care about everything there. Even the giant stalfos who ran a chase scene. *sniff*

Pax

08-17-2006, 11:58 PM

I don't have the time to sit for an hour or two to search the internet for fan-made modules, slag through everything, find one or two that sound interesting, then run at them for a couple hours each to see if I'll enjoy it.
What's to search? The Neverwinter Vault (http://nwvault.ign.com/) has them all - and they're rated by thecommunity, too. Lots of votes and a high rating = probably a safe bet that it's a decent module.

If the basic game isn't good enough, I'm going to pass on any fan-made modules, even if they can do a lot with it...unless I have specific suggestions on things that sound interesting.
Many inherently, relatively-easily player-moddable games end up, quite quickly, in a state where the fan-made content includes sterling examples of "the fans did it better".

Neverwinter Nights is one. Space Empires IV is another (and that one's so easily moddable, even I have contributed some popular features/concepts to that modding community ...!). Frankly, the entire Thief series is another - many of the FMs for that (er, sorry, "Fan Missions") are better-conceived, better-scripted, and far more entertaining than the ENTIRE publisher's mission series.

PyroGod

08-18-2006, 01:48 AM

Resident Evil 4. Haven't played it, and I've never really felt the urge to bother. Caught a ton of flak from a friend because of it. People were surprised when I was annoyed that Leon looked like a Dante pallette swap. Yes, I'm well aware that one of the many possible iterations for Resident Evil got spun into Devil May Cry. That doesn't mean that its not an annoyance when Leon looks like Dante. Please, people. Shell out a few exta bucks for a facelift. Please.

Leon looks pretty much like Leon. You have to remember they are significantly changing art direction to be more photorealistic.

And I don't want to sound like a damn character purist, but honestly, is it possible to be competent and effective without being the superbadass? Leon had a lot more appeal (to me) when he was just some poor schmuck who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Now he's Yet Another Government Sponsored Badass. *le sigh* Oh well. I can always replay RE2.

To be fair, I didn't play RE2, but at least in RE4, Leon isn't that badass (well, as one man video game hero armies go). He gets his ass saved a lot by other people, for one.

JamesCat

08-18-2006, 02:07 AM

I didn't think Planescape: Torment was particularly impressive when I first played it, and it has some things that drive me mad with frustration - like when I dropped the crowbar in some dungeon, not realising that I would need it to get through a plot-crucial point a couple of hours later and would have to WALK BACK THROUGH ABOUT THIRTY-FIVE POINTLESS SCREENS to find it. Vitenka had the same problem - he dropped Morte from his party, since he found him annoying, and then discovered it's impossible to progress beyond a certain point without him. Also nobody told me about Wisdom being crucial, and I was playing a fighter, so I DIDN'T GET TO OPEN THE BOX THAT TELLS YOU WHAT'S GOING ON.

I may play it again, given all the ranting about it that goes on, though.

J.

DeadManSeven

08-18-2006, 02:38 AM

I don't normally dig on 'what do you hate' threads, but it makes me so pleased to see so many people singling out Halo. Me, I think Halo is alright - provided you're a hardcore console player, and that's the only FPS you've ever played properly. But every time I've tried to bring this up to the lunatic Xbox die-hards, they praise Halo as being the best thing to ever be coded, and there will be no other words about it, and I'm totally unable to see it. The controls are sluggish, the usefulness of the weapons is all over the shop, the maps are shit, the different deathmatch setups are a bizarre collection of novelty weirdness, and the genius that thought keeping the weapon-butt in the multi-player game and having it just as deadly as in the single-player mode should have their car keyed. Also, anyone who prefers using a control pad over a mouse and keyboard for an FPS is a freak of nature, and I am thus obligated to look at them funny.

The rest of the stuff people hate, I can usually say, 'It's not for me, but it's probably for someone,' - World of Warcraft (and other MMORPGs), Resident Evil (and other survival horror games), etc., but Halo just gets right under my skin when I know there's Half-Life and Quake and Call of Duty as alternatives.

Pax

08-18-2006, 02:48 AM

Also, anyone who prefers using a control pad over a mouse and keyboard for an FPS is a freak of nature, and I am thus obligated to look at them funny.
I'm gonna disagree with you on this one, single point: the best control scheme for a person to use in an FPS is whatever they are most familiar with. I know I fare better with FPS games on my PS2, 'cause I know the controller layout instinctively, than I ever used to (or still can, 'though I've gotten better at it) with a mouse-and-keyboard.

With the keyboard, I often have to think about which button to hit for which effect; with the PS2 controller, there's no delay between desire and completion, because my conscious mind never has to get involved with "how to turn desire into a completed action".

^_^

Leif

08-18-2006, 03:50 AM

San Andreas does fix this to an extent. I've lost count of the number of times a shootout between the cops and rival gangsters gave me a chance to leg it before being shot to fuck by either.

It also fixed the camera angle issue by, y'know... actually giving you full control of the camera angle while on foot.

Prism Pawpaw

08-18-2006, 04:44 AM

Shooters. A vast majority of them are like Diablo 2 to gun junkies. Shooting the same shit with different weapons is not a fun thing at all.

Final Fantasy X and X-2. What a pile of horribly put together eye candy with hideous mini games. A lame plot that made no sense, spheres to "customize" which means breaking the game, and a sequel that only felt like a dress up game with no meat or potatoes. One can not live off of finely spun sugar and water and this series is just that. I probably wouldn't be so vindictave of this game if people didn't have the nerve to state that this is part of Final Fantasy 7's world and since FF7 is so good this game and its series must be good! That's like saying this apple is delicious so pecan must be good as well. Not even in the same boat! Or something.

Guilty Gears. God fuck you and your cheap ass end bosses. Your cliff hanger endings of Midnight Carnival can also join your parade of mockery bosses where the only way to win is to not play. The entire first game is a fiasco with its cheap combos and Instant KO. All the while you're still not releasing the rest of the series so I can find out what the fuck is going to happen to everyone. Is Bridget going to turn into a Pomokin fanboy? Will Faust ever remove the paperbag? Will Testament ever stop hating humans? Jesus, like a crazy fighting soap opera with heavy metal! And last but not least, your crazy ass combo button pushing buttons that require rolling the joystick around 180 both ways, a half circle, and successfully pushing a certain combination of XYXBABBX bullshit that the computer can do in half the time and can counter the combo when you do pull it off with ease.

WoW. Talking about my hatred of WoW would take a few days, several thousand pieces of paper, and enough coffee and boredom to make me actually feel the urge to remember the agony I put into this money sucking piece of garbage that ate so much of my time and energy.

Shameless Poser

08-18-2006, 04:59 AM

Final Fantasies 7 and 8. I have hate for the Final Fantasies released since then, but it's not really enough to warrant being on this list. :)

I'm sick of Sephiroth being held up as some shining example of everything a villain should be when he's just a Lovecraftian cultist with an oversized sword who stole from Sigfried and Roy's wardrobe. He has no personality, no real motivation for most of what he does over the course of the game, and the only cool scene he has (where he figures out his past) is undermined by a later plot development that could have made the whole thing one of Cloud's hallucinations.

I guess the thing that pisses me off about 7 so much is how it's an overall mediocre game that people think is all cool and innovative because they didn't bother playing any of the earlier games in the series. Also, Kefka is n^(eleventy billion) times cooler than Sephiroth, and the same formula can be used to compare their competence/success rate.

Final Fantasy 8 seemed to be an experiment in how many character designs you could recycle from Final Fantasy 7 without anyone noticing, with a side of "Let's ditch a system people might actually, y'know, know how to use and replace it with THE JUNCTION SYSTEM!" That wouldn't be so bad except that a wee bit of grinding in the first few sections of the game can keep your characters pretty consistently overpowered. Also, it was too easy to spam limit breaks and the foundation of the Junction system encourages you to spend hours farming for spells and then NOT USE THEM. The only fun thing about the game was how much of a dick Squall could be. How enjoyable the characters could be mostly gets undermined by the dumbest deus ex machina to ever be put in a video game.

We all grew up in the same orphanage together and were best friends then, but we, uh, forgot! Because, uh, the Guardian Forces screw up people's brains! Yeah, that's it! And, uh, it won't be a plot element again until the CG movie after you beat the final boss!

Centy

08-18-2006, 05:30 AM

I cannot bring myself to like Shadow of the Collusus. The climbing system I find irritating, the fights annoying. (Not excrutiatingly hard, just annoying for some reason I can't put my finger on.)

Maybe it's because my favorite game of the past 3 years is full spectrum warrior and its sequal, which are about as far away from epic boss battles as possible.

PyroGod

08-18-2006, 08:24 AM

I'm gonna disagree with you on this one, single point: the best control scheme for a person to use in an FPS is whatever they are most familiar with. I know I fare better with FPS games on my PS2, 'cause I know the controller layout instinctively, than I ever used to (or still can, 'though I've gotten better at it) with a mouse-and-keyboard.

With the keyboard, I often have to think about which button to hit for which effect; with the PS2 controller, there's no delay between desire and completion, because my conscious mind never has to get involved with "how to turn desire into a completed action".

^_^

Sure, but K+M is still the superior system for someone who knows. It allows more "keybinds" for those games that need them, and is far more precise. Unless a game is not designed to take advantage of it, K+M is the ultimate system for FPSs.

Pax

08-18-2006, 09:46 AM

Sure, but K+M is still the superior system for someone who knows.
Bullshit. Pure, utter, unadulterated bullshit.

Whatever is most effective for the individual player, is the best choice. Many modern controllers, remember, can have a startling number of buttons on them. The PS2 controller alone has the four right-hand buttons, the four shoulder buttons, the D-pad which can be programmed as four seperate buttons, twin analog sticks, AND, those analog sticks can be pushed in for another pair of buttons.

Analog controls aside, that's sixteen buttons. All analog. Plus the two thumb-sticks. Oh, and technically - although accessig them on the fly IS awkward - the Select and Start buttons, for two more (digital-only) controls.

The Nostromo n52 Speedpad I just bought for MMO / FPS use on the computer has ... sixteen buttons, D-pad for four more, and 360-degree mousewheel (with extra button if you push it in ... callit three more (forward, backward, depressed). that's twenty-THREE. None of them analog, and if you want movement control ... that's at LEAST four, probably six, that get used up. We'll add two more for a two-button mouse, just to be charitable. Twenty five, before accounting for movement.

Speaking of which, assuming only walk/run for speeds, a forward, backward, strafe left, strafe right (relying on full mouselook for turning ... wow, to match the left analog stick, you've got five buttons used. Down to twenty.

Twenty, versus sixteen ........... yea, that's so many more keybinds, uh-huh, yes it is. An amazing overabundance of additional keybinds. I mean, truly ... whatever could I have been thinking of, since the lowly PS2 DualShock has an entire four fewer buttons?

Of course, the sixteen it DOES have, give you a built-in form of "shift state" - a light pressure, or a firm pressure. The benefits of analog controls, and all that. I've played shooters, for example, where a light pressure brought your gun up, ready to use ... and a firm pressure fired it. That's part of MGS3, actually. Another trick there is holding L1 while you've got the gun up - to go fro "hp shooting" to "actually using the damn sights". Amazing how much more accurate the AK-47 is when you use the iron sights, instead of firing from the hip ...

As for other uses of shift-state? Controller keys can be assigned to that, just like with the n52. Heck, you can give something ONE function when pressed lightly, and assign it a shift-state toggle if pressed FIRMLY.

So, I re-state: the best choice of control scheme is whatever works best for the player in question.

Gema

08-18-2006, 10:02 AM

It also fixed the camera angle issue by, y'know... actually giving you full control of the camera angle while on foot.

You know having only played the PC versions, I never understood the complaints about the camera in those games untill I played a friends PS2 copy. I'll stick to the PC versions, open mouselook FTW.

IceShadow

08-18-2006, 10:11 AM

As far as FPS go, I believe that K+M is better for me at the very least.

Analog buttons are all well and good, but I don't view the K part of K+M to be the real benefit. Being able to point and click is much more responsive than using a joystick to try and aim quickly. And no matter how many different "positions" an analog joystick has, it won't let you match the precise aiming/turning that a mouse affords.

I do feel, however, that saying that one control scheme is better for EVERYONE than another is rather silly. ;)

Balbinus

08-18-2006, 10:46 AM

I agree with Pax, I find the PC controls hugely easier but that's because I grew up with them, there isn't an innate superiority.

Anyway, on topic, Warcraft 3.

Warcraft 2 was funny, you clicked on your little guys and they made funny little comments. The elves all had American accents, the orc Grunts would say ok in a tremendously resigned tone, the Death Knight would say "I will do as you command, and then I'm coming back...for you". It was brilliant, full of character and wit.

Warcraft 3 by contrast is an overlong trad fantasy novel puffed up with a sense of its own importance. Also, routinely I find myself at a point where I am at no serious risk of losing the level but the level size means I still have hours to play through before going to the inevitable victory. I find myself using cheat modes not because I need to but because I'm curious to see if the story does anything eventually and am too bored to play through it.

Balbinus

08-18-2006, 10:47 AM

And no matter how many different "positions" an analog joystick has, it won't let you match the precise aiming/turning that a mouse affords.

That's true, but some people see the hyperaccuracy as a disadvantage of using a mouse, as it makes the game too easy and damages suspension of disbelief.

I'm not one of them, I need all the help I can get, but I have heard it said.

Arbane the Terrible

08-18-2006, 10:48 AM

So, I re-state: the best choice of control scheme is whatever works best for the player in question.

You lie. There is One True Control Scheme, and anyone who claims to prefer another is lying, evil or insane.

(I don't NEED to put a smiley here, do I?)

IceShadow

08-18-2006, 12:00 PM

That's true, but some people see the hyperaccuracy as a disadvantage of using a mouse, as it makes the game too easy and damages suspension of disbelief.

I'm not one of them, I need all the help I can get, but I have heard it said.

I'd say that depends on the game. If your character is supposed to be a badass soldier with awesome aim and pin-point accurate weapons, like most FPS games, then I don't see how aiming with a gun would be any harder than aiming with a mouse. If I'm a giant robot and it SHOULD take me time to get my torso pointed the right way, a joystick makes more sense to me. If I'm a regular shmoe who doesn't have a lot of experience with a weapon or if the weapon is supposed to not be pin-point accurate, I prefer a scheme like Deus Ex, Soldier of Fortune, or Outlaws...where the game builds-in inaccuracy that can be nullified by holding still to aim/crouching/taking a position/skilling up in the weapon.

Either way, I can turn around pretty quickly IRL, so not being able to do so because my joystick isn't set high enough on sensativity is annoying to me. At least in FPS games.

Ottergame

08-18-2006, 12:54 PM

Final Fantasy 7. Worst FF game -ever-. Just because the story is badly translated and confusing doesn't make it a cool story. It just makes it badly translated and confusing. Don't pretend it's some huge, secret thing that makes you special if you figured it all out. The only reason most people don't "get it" is because Square hired monkies to localize it. And guess what? Even when you do get it, it's still shit.

Halo 1 and 2. I have news for ya, fanboys. I've been playing better FPSs then these for a decade. Try UT, Half Life, or one of any of the hundred PC FPSs that leave this little console poo in the dust. BTW, the Flood is the dumbest shit I've ever seen in a FPS. Hey, Halo 2? Little Shop of Horrors called, it wants its gimick back.

LowBeyonder

08-18-2006, 01:02 PM

I don't dig on FPS games at all. If you like 'em, good for you, but they're very not my thing. Please stop telling me about how totally great Your Favorite FPS is. Grr.

I didn't dislike FFVII when I first played it, but I've gradually tread the merry road to loathing after a few replays, and running into way too many people convinced it's the best thing since, well, ever. No. No, it wasn't. Not even close.

Samaritan

08-18-2006, 01:13 PM

I don't dig on FPS games at all. If you like 'em, good for you, but they're very not my thing. Please stop telling me about how totally great Your Favorite FPS is. Grr.
.

I'm kinda the same way about RTS. Make mine turn-based, dammit! :) The only exception has been Mechcommander, but I think it's more my love of 'mechs that makes me okay with it. :)

Balbinus

08-18-2006, 01:23 PM

Halo 1 and 2. I have news for ya, fanboys. I've been playing better FPSs then these for a decade. Try UT, Half Life, or one of any of the hundred PC FPSs that leave this little console poo in the dust. BTW, the Flood is the dumbest shit I've ever seen in a FPS. Hey, Halo 2? Little Shop of Horrors called, it wants its gimick back.

You know, most of us are managing to hit on games without insulting their fans.

I've played a lot of FPS games, I prefer Halo, that doesn't make me a fanboy.

Several people have said in this thread they hate Halo, that's cool, it's the point of the thread. You're the only one managed to insult me in the process.

Balbinus

08-18-2006, 01:26 PM

I'd say that depends on the game. If your character is supposed to be a badass soldier with awesome aim and pin-point accurate weapons, like most FPS games, then I don't see how aiming with a gun would be any harder than aiming with a mouse. If I'm a giant robot and it SHOULD take me time to get my torso pointed the right way, a joystick makes more sense to me. If I'm a regular shmoe who doesn't have a lot of experience with a weapon or if the weapon is supposed to not be pin-point accurate, I prefer a scheme like Deus Ex, Soldier of Fortune, or Outlaws...where the game builds-in inaccuracy that can be nullified by holding still to aim/crouching/taking a position/skilling up in the weapon.

Either way, I can turn around pretty quickly IRL, so not being able to do so because my joystick isn't set high enough on sensativity is annoying to me. At least in FPS games.

I agree, I don't agree with the comment I cited, I was just mentioning it as nobody else had.

Afterburner

08-18-2006, 01:26 PM

Bullshit. Pure, utter, unadulterated bullshit.

You know, Pax -- and I say this only because I care -- but there are a lot of decaf brands on the market that taste just as good as the real thing.

Ottergame

08-18-2006, 01:27 PM

You know, most of us are managing to hit on games without insulting their fans.

I've played a lot of FPS games, I prefer Halo, that doesn't make me a fanboy.

Several people have said in this thread they hate Halo, that's cool, it's the point of the thread. You're the only one managed to insult me in the process.

You're not a fanboy, then you have no cause to be insulted. The fanboys are the ones who go around claiming Halo is the best thing ever, and immedately dismiss any non-Halo FPS as inferior, without trying it.

Curt

08-18-2006, 01:42 PM

You're not a fanboy, then you have no cause to be insulted. The fanboys are the ones who go around claiming Halo is the best thing ever, and immedately dismiss any non-Halo FPS as inferior, without trying it.

Good afternoon, Ottergame,

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PyroGod

08-18-2006, 02:31 PM

Bullshit. Pure, utter, unadulterated bullshit.

Whatever is most effective for the individual player, is the best choice.

For them, yes. Overall, no. A car you know intimately with a top speed of 150 might be better for you than a car you've never driven before with a top speed of 155 in a race, but the latter car is still the optimal car for racing in general.

Analog controls aside, that's sixteen buttons. All analog. Plus the two thumb-sticks. Oh, and technically - although accessig them on the fly IS awkward - the Select and Start buttons, for two more (digital-only) controls.

And K+M has, for my setup, 7 mouse buttons + mouse movement, and an entire keyboard as well (though if we only count WASD and the keys reachable from that resting position, that is about 20).

As I've noted before, I think WOW is a good example of this. No traditional controller setup can use number of keybinds a good WOW player needs. I have two dozen ability binds alone, for example, plus a dozen other things as well (move, jump, autorun, select / act, etc). There are people with more than that.

Analog functions

Analog functions on buttons are only rarely a good idea, in my experience. It takes a while to get used to them, and they are far more prone to mis-commands even after the learning curve.

CodexArcanum

08-18-2006, 03:13 PM

The point about the number of analog buttons is incorrect. Only the four face pad buttons are analog. The shoulder buttons, the D-Pad, and the joystick buttons are all digital.

For the record, I'm a big proponent of mouse and keyboard for FPS myself. I've only played one FPS on a console with a good control scheme: Metroid Prime. Now there's a piece of FPS brilliance.

Back to games we hate, let me toss in one I forgot. Resident Evil. Whole series, even 4. The early ones had irrating control schemes that I absolutely hated. And please don't try to justify it for me, I've heard it before and your argument will not convince me otherwise. I aboslutely could not deal with RE's control, after multiple attempts. RE4 seems better, but I just couldn't get used to the perspective. 3rd person games, fine. First person games, fine. Top down view, isometic, fixed camera (DMC style) or almost anything else, fine. But that over the shoulder, "running with the character" camera makes me nauseous.

Garry G

08-18-2006, 03:19 PM

The point about the number of analog buttons is incorrect. Only the four face pad buttons are analog. The shoulder buttons, the D-Pad, and the joystick buttons are all digital.

I don't know what system you're talking about but both the PS2 & XBox thumbsticks and shoulder/trigger buttons are completely analog although you are right about the D-Pad on both.

Q99

08-18-2006, 03:34 PM

I used to love consol RPGs. Nowadays, I still love their stories, which is why I read summaries online and skip the 95% padding of the game that consists of random encounters or talking to random people. The time for the consise RPG has come.

(with a cravet for some games: If you've skipped the menu thing that's bog-standard in 90% of RPGs for something fun, *especially* if it's also quick, that helps. If a lot is actually happening in the plot and the game has multiple shifts in feel, that helps. But in short I need a lot of demanding requirements met before I'll play through a whole RPG).

CodexArcanum

08-18-2006, 03:41 PM

I don't know what system you're talking about but both the PS2 & XBox thumbsticks and shoulder/trigger buttons are completely analog although you are right about the D-Pad on both.

I was discussing the PS2 controller. I'm... 90% certain that the shoulder pads on it are digital, but I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. I'm well aware that the thumbsticks themselves are analog. But you can "click" the PS2 sticks as another button and THAT action is digital.

ADDITION: Ok, I looked it up and you're right. The shoulder pads are indeed pressure sensitive. But I have never played a game that actually used that on the shoulder buttons. So, I'm sorry, I was wrong.

I did not know that the XBox controller had analog buttons, but then I don't own an XBox and I wasn't talking about it anyway.

Balthazor

08-18-2006, 03:57 PM

Just about any Final Fantasy game beyond the first couple. That would be the first couple American versions, which would mean something like the first dozen or so Japanese releases.

What I'd like is a disk with all the prerendered cutscenes tied together as a coherent story. The last several FF games I "played" seemed to have great storylines and some really gorgeous cutscenes, but what little gameplay there was just annoyed me beyond words. Walk three steps, spend 20 minutes fighting a dull and repetitive battle, walk three more steps, blow another 20 minutes on a dull battle...that just isn't my idea of fun.

I'd add KOTOR as well. Granted, I only played it for an hour or so, and I do intend someday to give it another chance. But what I recall of that hour or so, well, there's a reason why I only played for an hour or so. I thought it sucked.

Finally, I'll toss in MGS2. In a way, this was almost the exact opposite of the FF thing: good gameplay wedged between long and stupid cutscenes. But what really annoyed me was the zigging-and-zagging between the same several areas for the entire course of the game. Oh, you're going to need a sniper rifle. Where's that? Why, back where you just came from. There are some good ways to squeeze a lot of game out of a relatively small environment, but having the player criss-crossing that environment over and over again on stupid fetch-it missions isn't among them.