[wfb] Help me pick an army.

[Hudson]

I know there are a good number of Warhammer Fantasy players that post here, and I'm thinking of starting an army. I've played warhammer 40,000 for a few years. I've looked through various websites and found a number of armies that appeal to me for one reason or another, but the details of their play styles and strengthes/weaknesses are still hard to come by.

So, I was wondering if some of the Warhammer Fantasy Veterens would share a little information with me about the good points and bad of the following forces so that I could make an informed opinion:
-Vampire Counts
-Dwarves
-Tomb Kings
-Lizardmen
-Empire
-Tzeentch themed Chaos

Thanks ahead of time :D

[CrazyIvan]

Originally posted by Majin Cthulhu
I know there are a good number of Warhammer Fantasy players that post here, and I'm thinking of starting an army. I've played warhammer 40,000 for a few years. I've looked through various websites and found a number of armies that appeal to me for one reason or another, but the details of their play styles and strengthes/weaknesses are still hard to come by.

So, I was wondering if some of the Warhammer Fantasy Veterens would share a little information with me about the good points and bad of the following forces so that I could make an informed opinion:
-Vampire Counts
-Dwarves
-Tomb Kings
-Lizardmen
-Empire
-Tzeentch themed Chaos

Thanks ahead of time :D

The Vampire Counts (what I play), have some of the strongest characters in the game, and a fairly wide selection of possible armies, as there are 5 different blood lines of Vampire for you to pick from.

Thanks to the Invocation (one of their spells), the Vampires can raise new undead units, heal existing units or undead characters. Very fun tactically. Their real weaknesses are absolutely pathetic rank and file core troops, no shooting and no war machines.


Tomb Kings have some very nice units, can heal wounds on existing units, and have an ultra-reliable magic phase. I've heard they are a very tactically challenging army to play.

Dwarves have probably the best core infantry in the game, are hard as a rock when it comes to Ld tests and the like, and have a massive amount of options when it comes to shooting and warmachines. They're also slower than all getout.

There you have the 3 I know.

[Harbinger]

VAmpires: Hard hitting characters and powerful magic with fear cusing troops. THose troops tend to not be very potent though. Vampires tend to rely on skeletons and zombies tying up enemy units so that the very powerful vampires can come in and destroy them. It is a good Character based army.

Dwarves: Potent troops, powerful artillery, good leadership and potent characters. Weak magic, and slow movement are the downsides. Dwarves probably have the best core trooper in the game for the point cost.

Tomb Kings: (I play them so I am biased) FLexible army with many availiable strategies, the whole army causes fear and is unbreakable. Thier magic is very reliable and can be very potent. They look awesome as well.

Lizardmen: Powerful hand to hand army with powerful magic support. Small numbers are the big weakness of this army. Cold Blooded is a potent special rule, that give the lizardmen leadership to rival the dwarves.

EMpire: Another strong flexible army that relies on combined arms. No single unit is super strong, but they are not weak either.

Tzeentch Chaos. I don't have a lot of familiarity with this so I can't really say. Chaos in general is a good strong army that is hard to beat in the hands of a skilled player.

[Rythian]

OK, it depends on how you want to play. The majority of the armies you have chosen are slow (OK, half). The Dwarves have no cav and the worst Movement in the game. Both forces of the Undead has very limited March moves. So most players of these armies that I've fought are very defensive. The lizards are expensive but potent, they are stable and have few weakness', they can bring different looks and playstyles. The Empire is the best catch all army, and they have the infamous broken "Steam Tank" (not really broken, it just doesn't follow the standard rules), they also have core cave with a 1+ armour save, they have some of the best core in the game as far as I'm concerned. Chaos is fun, magic heavy chaos can be more fun. They too can have a 1+ AS cav as core (in mortal armies), they can bring an all chariot army. You have good choices for armies (not mine, but we all can't be me:D ), the biggest thing for me is looks, I play my Dark Elves because they are sexy, the orcs and goblins cause the are goofy and fun. I do have the start of a Tomb King army, they look fun. Tho I am planning to do a goblin modeled TK army as well (skeletal goblins coming at ya).

Hoo

[Oddsod Blok'ed]

The big question is figuring out what sort of army you want to play. Fast-attack? Magic-heavy? Shooty? Hard as a rock? I can comment on the armies, but I haven't fought Tomb Kings yet.

Vampire Counts: No shooting, basic crunchy troops are pathetic in hand-to-hand against anything other than Goblins or Skinks. Rock-hard characters and lots of magic in most cases, though, and your whole army is a psychological weapon.

Dwarfs: Mountains move faster than Dwarfs do, but they have comparable levels of resilience. Dwarfs have no offensive magic, but they can be extremely shooty. I've heard of hand-to-hand Dwarf armies, but I have yet to see one.

Tomb Kings: Wonky. One of the most magic-heavy armies in the game, but their crunchies are as pathetic as Vampire Count crunchies. You get lots of shooting in a Tomb King army, though, and a metric buttload of special-rule-toting units. Plus you can field units of chariots, which no other army can do. They seem to be best as a counter-assault army, but you can go hand-to-hand heavy or shooting-heavy. Magic-heavy is pretty much a given in most Tomb King armies. Also, like Vampire Counts the army is psychologically powerful. Undead just are. :D

Lizardmen: Powerful, but a lot of stuff seems to be too expensive in terms of points for what it does on the field. Lizardmen can be very versatile, but there is a definite limit in terms of variety, since there are only 3 core choices (4 if you take a Slann Mage-Priest, but there are other things involved there). Lizardmen have no long-range shooting, but can have an abundance of magical power. It's also possible to be a hand-to-hand combat monster army.

Empire: The most flexible army in the game aside from Chaos. You can play just about anything you want with an Empire army. The downsides are that basic human crunchies (Swordsmen, Halberdiers, etc) have low Leadership and average Toughness, so they die and run away fairly easily. However, you can also get rock-hard core heavy cavalry that doesn't. Most Empire armies seem to focus on blasting the snot out of the enemy army with Cannon, Mortars, Helblaster Volley Guns or various forms of shooting. I'd like to see a hand-to-hand infantry-based Empire army, but I haven't, yet.

Tzeentch-themed Chaos: Chaos is the most varied list in the game and is also the GW pet army. They say something very akin to that in the preface of the Hordes of Chaos book. Tzeentch is the magic-heavy element of Chaos. You don't have any shooting, but you can have bucketloads of power dice. A basic mortal Chaos unit is an 'ard unit and is very powerful in hand-to-hand. You also get to take daemons, and Tzeentch has some of the more interesting and powerful ones, including some that can cast magic spells themselves, aside from your characters. The big thing I've seen with Tzeentch armies is that magic plays a huge part in the army list, since you're outnumbered by damn near everything (even for Chaos, Tzeentch is point-intensive).

[Gloombunny]

Chaos never seemed all that flexible to me. Sure, there are mortals and demons and beastmen, and four gods to follow plus Undivided, but they all boil down to what window dressing you want on your ultra-expensive ultra-nasty combat units. ;) (Ok, the beastmen have somewhat more flexibility with the ambushers and monsters, to be fair.) Tzeentch is one of the top magic armies in the game. The actual Tzeentch spells are only so-so, but the sheer amount of magic a Tzeentch army can fling in each turn is simply unmatched. Tzeentch has wizards who double as perhaps the nastiest combat characters in the game, but they're also mind-breakingly expensive.

Lizardmen are, IMO, one of the most flexible armies out there. They have expensive but extremely effective and dependable fighting units (superheavy infantry AND superheavy cavalry ;) ) with the saurus, but also cheap and highly mobile skirmishers, scouts, and flyers through the skinks. No long-range shooting, but some pretty good short-range shooting that can maneuver around enemy units while peppering them with poison darts and flaming venom. They can be quite effective with either no magic (unlike most armies, you don't even need to bring wizards to have a decent magical defense), or - with an expensive slann lord - some of the best magic around.

The Empire is probably the most flexible race. They have good light infantry (with their awesome "detachment" special rule), artillery and shooting second only to dwarfs, hard-hitting light cavalry, excellent heavy cavalry, and a bit of potentially nasty heavy infantry. Their magic is so-so, and their fighting characters are somewhat less than stunning.

Dwarfs have the slowest infantry in the game and no cavalry, but that's about their only shortcoming. They have no magic of their own, but excellent magical defense. Their infantry is quite effective, but the low movement keeps their point cost very reasonable. Their artillery and shooting is brutal. Their fighting characters are tough as nails and can dish it out pretty well too.

Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings are odd ducks. As undead, they don't follow some of the most fundamental rules of normal troops, and every unit they have causes fear. They're pretty reliable, since undead troops gradually wither away instead of suddenly losing their nerve and running. However, they also lose some tactical flexibility, since undead are missing some important movement options. (This is a somewhat less of an issue for Vampire Counts.)

Tomb Kings are pretty much always very magic heavy, but VC can range from medium-light to heavy depending on which bloodline your vampires are from. Blood Dragon vampires rival lizardman and chaos characters for fighting power, but aren't so hot in magic. Other bloodlines substitute extra magic for that fighting power, or are more balanced and with nifty tricks to boot. Vampire Counts have virtually no shooting or "zapping" magic, so it's all about combat, but their magic can be quite effective at helping in that.

TKs are more varied than VCs. Whereas VC have a "Night of the Living Dead" feel with big masses of shambling zombies, ghouls, and ghosts heading towards the opponent (or, perhaps, undead knights riding them down with lances), TK remind me of the Army of Darkness undead - they've got all the elements of a normal army, except everything is a skeleton. Skeleton footmen, skeleton archers, skeleton light and heavy cavalry, skeleton chariots, and even skeletal artillery. Add to that a number of undead constructs (bone giants, enormous tomb scorpions, and more!), and you've got a nifty Egyptian army. Their magic works differently from the normal magic rules, and is very focused on boosting the capabilities of their units. (Which is important, since most of their units are just crappy skeletons.)