So, WotC Contest, wtf?

[Robotron666]

Is this not the craziest thing? Who is planning on submitting?

[Jack]

I can't think of a reason not to.

[Dr Yang]

I'm in. I have some good ideas, and like Jack says, there is no reason not to.

=)

[Fumble]

I wasn't sure. Did anyone else read the part of their disclaimer that said,
"
SUBMITTEE acknowledges that the Idea may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or other element of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources and SUBMITTEE shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar or identical material.
".

Now a corporation wouldn't say, "sorry, you lose".. then use the material and say, "oh, but it wasn't your idea....we just happend to have an identical idea of our own"... would they?

Maybe I am just being paranoid, but such as disclaimer seems like an invitation for abuse.

[Dr Yang]

Woah! I did not see that one.

That means they could take any of the potentially thousands of ideas submitted and use them at their leisure.
That's positively sneaky.

[AdrianChapman]

I really want to submit, but I had the same thought that Dr.Yang did. I'd be dealing with a corporation instead of a publisher.
I'll probrably submit anyway, not that I think I have a hope in Hades or anything.

AC

[Eilfin]

That clause is standard for all companies. We have to say that because if we actually do have that idea already in the works, then it is the only way to protect ourselves (speaking as a company...)

It is definitely possible that they will turn around and say they already had that idea, but I seriously doubt they would do something like that - even if just for the fact that if they did get caught at it, it would cost them a lot more money than they are putting into this right now and it would seriously hurt them for anything they intended to do in the future, as nobody would be willing to submit things to them.

To make a long story short - they are simply protecting themselves with that clause.

[Dan Norder]

This is pretty much standard for any writing submission to any company. It has to be that way to prevent nuisance lawsuits from people who think that the company ripped off their ideas even though something similar was already under development.

I bet there will be large a group of people who signed the contracts who still claim, "Hey, WOTC ripped me off, I submitted an idea of a world where people in armor and cloaks fight dragons and monsters with swords and spells, and the winning world is obviously based upon mine, so I want my $100,000! ! ! !"

Even just a few years in the writing business and you'll run across lots of people like this who claim everything out there was based upon something they did and don't realize other people are perfectly capable of coming up with ideas on their own. There's some guy out there who has never published anything who still claims that Star Trek Voyager was his idea and that Paramount owes him money. We're supposed to believe that this guy came up with the same idea used in Lost in Space and even the Odyssey? I'd like to see him sue to claim ownership of the Greco-Roman myth cycle.

And, quite honestly, ideas are a dime a dozen. Companies and people in creative fields have way more ideas than they can ever get around to developing, and it's a sure thing that other people had similar ideas. It's developed ideas that are worth money. Copyright law recognizes this fact. Ideas aren't covered, only finished works.

Don't worry about it. You won't be able to deal with any publishing companies without signing a similar contract. Get used to it if you want to get anywhere.

Dan Norder
Inklings Press

[AdrianChapman]

I agree with you Eilfin, and you as well Mr. Norder.
I know that contracts of that nature are standard and they are for the company's protection, I've never had a problem with them at all.
I guess it is just the contest aspect of it that throws me off a bit. It just seems to, I don't know, too much like most RPG fanboy's wildest wet dreams. It seems almost (if this is possible), too good to be true.
I tend not to trust things that seem that way. Its just my nature.
Like I said, I may submit anyway.
The only thing I meant with my previous post was that WoTC isn't the same in my mind as the smaller publishers that I see on the boards here, for some reason I feel that I can trust the people I've interacted with here. I guess I'm just a tad bit paranoid about the "big boys".
:)

Thats all

AC

[Matt Drake]

Now a corporation wouldn't say, "sorry, you lose".. then use the material and say, "oh, but it wasn't your idea....we just happend to have an identical idea of our own"... would they?
[/QUOTE]

Thing is, assuming this isn't a giant hoax perpetrated by Raven McCracken, they have announced a contest and have to give away $160,000. So why would they steal your idea and then have 3 other people make settings they were going to throw away?

This paragraph exists solely to protect Wizards from sue-happy jackasses. This is absolutely no reason to turn down the opportunity. Pretty much any written submission has to come with this disclaimer or they throw it out before they read it.

Example worst case scenario:

Writer submits wacky idea to R. Talsorian - 'how about a game where it's the future, only dark, and there are computers?'

R. Talsorian thinks the writer sounds like a retard, and they're already working on Cyberpunk. So they pitch his dumb-ass, half-developed raw turd of a writing submission.

Writer/jackass hears nothing for a year, and then Cyberpunk comes out. 'Sweet Gherkins!' says the writer, 'I thought of that, and they stole it!' Writer sues.

R. Talsorian had a brief lapse of judgement and did not require the standard submission release form. A judge gives some no-talent yahoo hack the rights - and all profits present, past and future - to Cyberpunk.

So don't let this one paragraph slow you down at all. If Wizards doesn't pay you, then they didn't like your work, and if they do like it, they ARE going to pay for it.

So to sum up, yes, you're being paranoid.

Matt Drake
www.spectrepress.com

[Dan Norder]

You should go for it. Honestly, you really do have absolutely nothing to lose.

Even if WOTC wanted to rip off people, which would certainly not be in their best interest, they just don't have the resources to develop the ideas that don't make the top three. With everything they already control -- Dragonlance, Ravenloft, the Magic the Gathering World, Mystara, Planescape, Dark Sun, Forgotten Realms, ad infinitum -- the odds of them trying to do anything with any individual ideas that don't make the final round is next to nothing.

So, other than the time of putting a very short presentation together for the initial round there's no downside. About the only people that I can see passing on this offer would be the creative types who are already successful enough that they could leverage their world into $100,000 or more without WOTC.

And please, I'd prefer if people call me Dan.

Dan Norder
Inklings Press

[AdrianChapman]

Yeah, I'm being paranoid. Since I could definatly use an extra (extra my arse, I'm broke!) thousand semolians I'm gonna go for the gusto.
I think I'm gonna stick to one entry, unlike some of the folks around here who plan on firing off dozens. If I think they are good eggs you are sure as hell I'm going to put them all into one basket.
Thanks for the perspective Matt (I know you weren't talking to me, but I was being paranoid too) and you too Dan, it is nice to agree with you for a change.:)

AC

[Dasein Fiasco]

Those that submit should post their entries here. I think June 22nd is the deadline, and you learn if you have placed in the top ten by July 3rd. After those dates there’s no need to remain secretive any longer, and I’d really like to see how others developed their submissions. There’s certainly a lot to be learned from having to be evocative, clear, innovative, concise, interesting, and accessible all in the space of a single page.

[Dr Yang]

Dan and Eiflin: Thanks for the helpful info.
I did not realise that clause was standard procedure.
I will submit and entry, and maybe some day, who know...

:p

[EvanMoore]

I have no desire to submit anything.

Just because WotC is experiencing creative issues and looking for free advice from the industry is no reason for me to sacrifice my good ideas on the off-chance I'd be chosen.

Add to that the fact that the submission guidelines say that WotC owns whatever ideas you submit and you do the math.

$100,000 for 10,000 new ideas? $10 per idea? Talk about getting off cheap!

Evan

[AdrianChapman]

Originally posted by EvanMoore
I have no desire to submit anything.

Just because WotC is experiencing creative issues and looking for free advice from the industry is no reason for me to sacrifice my good ideas on the off-chance I'd be chosen.

Add to that the fact that the submission guidelines say that WotC owns whatever ideas you submit and you do the math.

$100,000 for 10,000 new ideas? $10 per idea? Talk about getting off cheap!

Evan

Hmmm, I didn't even think about that. I just thought it was part of their NDA. Guess I'll have to rethink this.
Heh. Like I could sell a politics/intigue game to WotC anyway.:D
I think I'll just go write a story or something.

AC

[Dan Norder]

Originally posted by EvanMoore
Add to that the fact that the submission guidelines say that WotC owns whatever ideas you submit and you do the math.

It specifically does NOT say that. It clearly says that your writing does not become the property of Wizards of the Coast unless you are one of the people paid money.

It's a standard legal document with no hidden clauses out to steal anything. If you are afraid to follow these guidelines then you can give up all hope of working with any professional publishers, including most small companies.

Dan Norder
Inklings Press

[Misguided]

This is interesting. I've never seen it worded this way or thought of it on my own. It's nice because it protects WotC but as Dan says it does not assign rights to them. It is therefore actually a weaker wording of the traditional language, perhaps because the traditional "All your submissions are belong to us" language may be tough to defend in court. I may have to adopt something like this...

[Matt Drake]

Dan's exactly right. Seriously, people, calm down. You've been playing too much Conspiracy X. Wizards is not going to steal your ideas. They don't own it unless they pay for it. They just don't want you to claim they stole from you.

So please, enough with the conspiracy theories. Wizards does not want to steal your ideas. They also did not kill JFK, they don't harbor aliens, and they aren't covering up Elvis's secret love child. It's a contest, pure and simple. If they use your idea YOU WILL GET PAID. If they don't want to pay you, it's because they don't want to publish your setting. Who knows, maybe you sucked. Stranger things have happened.

Matt Drake
www.spectrepress.com

[EvanMoore]

Basic fact: If two people submit a commonly themed idea, they are fre to use it because it is not exclusively yours.

Basic fact: If several dozen people submit ideas that are similar, they know that this is something the marketplace is interested in. Then, using variations on a theme, they can bring it to market by paying the best person with the idea.

Basic fact: WotC recognizes that the market is in desperate need for the "next cool thing". They are fishing. This contest is nothing more than marketing analysis. Rather than pay $100,000 to the market analysis firm, why not give a bonus to someone in the industry?

Okay. So, I am a bit of a conspiratorialist.

Bottom line, I don't trust WotC. I never have. I never will. I didn't trust TSR before them--and I still bear that chip on my shoulder for them shutting down the gaming house with the most innovative games on the market at the time--GDW.

I don't trust Hasbro.

Hasbro/WotC is the "Microsoft" of this industry. Their business tactics are not quite as predatory, but still similar.

That is my personal opinion based upon analysis of the marketplace as I see it. Take it as you will.

Evan

[Dan Norder]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EvanMoore
Basic fact: If two people submit a commonly themed idea, they are fre to use it because it is not exclusively yours.

Even more basic fact: Nobody owns any idea exclusively.

Ideas can't be owned, not unless they are so revolutionary that a patent can be applied for. Patents aren't given for ideas about fictional settings.

Developed ideas can be copyrighted, but the underlying idea at the root of it is still free for anyone who wants to develop it themselves.

You have nothing to lose by entering this contest. It is as clearly on the up and up as any writing assignment for any company could be.

If you are still afraid of the company itself for reasons unrelated to this contest, eh, nothing I can do. Paranoia doesn't follow any rules of logic.

Dan

[Staffan]

Originally posted by EvanMoore
I didn't trust TSR before them--and I still bear that chip on my shoulder for them shutting down the gaming house with the most innovative games on the market at the time--GDW.

From the Gary Gygax FAQ at http://www.gygax.com/gygaxfaq.html:

To the best of his knowledge and belief, the suit was not the proximate cause of the eventual demise of GDW. In fact, under the settlement, they paid none of the legal fees for defense against TSR's claims, and TSR purchased remaining inventory from GDW.

The demise of GDW probably had more to do with the CCG boom and possibly with alienating a bunch of Traveller fans with Traveller: The New Era.

[B. Miller]

I would just like to point out that all of the nay-saying people are CORRECT.

Wizards probably intends to steal your ideas, because they can't find anyone else to pay for this sort of thing, and even though they have about half of God's money and a quarter of Bill Gates's, they sure won't PAY anyone for the ideas or the work.

So nobody should submit to this contest, and that's my publically stated official position. Don't submit! Fight the power! Keep your worlds and ideas for yourself!

Me, I'll be back in a little bit, I have this one-page, uh, thing I'm working on. Never mind me.

[Quetzal]

Originally posted by Fumble
I wasn't sure. Did anyone else read the part of their disclaimer that said,
"
SUBMITTEE acknowledges that the Idea may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or other element of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources and SUBMITTEE shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar or identical material.
".

Now a corporation wouldn't say, "sorry, you lose".. then use the material and say, "oh, but it wasn't your idea....we just happend to have an identical idea of our own"... would they?

Maybe I am just being paranoid, but such as disclaimer seems like an invitation for abuse.

The old screenwriting saying goes...

"The best way to make sure someone doesn't steal your screenplay is to keep it locked in a drawer and never show it to anyone."

...or something like that.

As people have stated this is a pretty standard clause. I had to sign them a lot when I first started out writing screenplays. It seems like every first time writer is afraid of people stealing their ideas.

The thing to remember is you are not selling your ideas as much as selling yourself, your writing ability and (like someone said) your ability to develop ideas. Your attitude should be, "I don't care if you steal my idea, because I've got a million more where that came from." Make them want to pay for you, not your ideas.


Note: I'm not saying there aren't people out there who will steal your ideas. There are! That's why I believe in Hell. Makes me feel better :)

[Concatenate]

I just DL'ed the WotC submission form.

I heard so much chatter about the contest that I guess I expected it to be more than it was, but...This seems pretty cheesy.

The criteria drives me bonkers: It has to be a NEW fantasy setting - whoa, exciting! New settings are great! I can get all creative and adapt my Rennaissance-Era/John Woo/X-Files crossover and...

Oh, wait. It says it here it should be similar to Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms.

So it has to be new and exciting - exciting enough to become the new dominant player in the industry, but...It has to be similar to two established brands already?

Isn't this like saying your new flavor of ice cream should ensure Wizard's Ice Cream's stability as the big player in the industry - but it should also be like their Golden Vanilla ice cream and Vanilla Bean ice cream flavors? Are people really going to flock to a third type of vanilla ice cream?

There are TONS of "new" settings similar to Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms. Do a quick search on Yahoo! alone and you'll be swimming in them. And none of these have taken over the industry yet. Why not? Well, my guess is that they're too derivative.

And I know, I know - There's tons of wacky, unconventional settings out there, and these will never compete with Wizards because they're too weird (Over the Edge, Puppetland). Why reinvent the wheel, people buy what's comfortably familiar, etc...

But it seems like the same kind of corporate-think that brought you New Coke, Vanilla Coke, Lemon Pepsi, and See-Through Pepsi.

Harrumph.

Also, for question two...by "heroes" do you think they mean significant NPC's like Elminster, or the roles the PC's play in the world? I need to know so I can, you know, complete my submission and send it in =D

[Concatenate]

Is Forgotten Realms derived from Fantasy fiction? Isn't Dragonlance? Or do I have it backwards?

[Staffan]

Originally posted by Concatenate
IOh, wait. It says it here it should be similar to Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms.

So it has to be new and exciting - exciting enough to become the new dominant player in the industry, but...It has to be similar to two established brands already?

(...)

Also, for question two...by "heroes" do you think they mean significant NPC's like Elminster, or the roles the PC's play in the world? I need to know so I can, you know, complete my submission and send it in =D
By "similar to Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms", they mean in tech level. They don't want Shadowrun. Dark Sun or Spelljammer would be OK (if they hadn't already done those, that is).

By "heroes" they mean "what type of person becomes a hero in this setting" and not specific characters (not at this stage). For Dark Sun it would be "Typical heroes are escaped slaves trying to survive in the wastes, tribesmen defending their homes and members of the veiled alliance working against the opression of the sorcerer-kings."

[Lizard]

Originally posted by EvanMoore
I have no desire to submit anything.

Just because WotC is experiencing creative issues and looking for free advice from the industry is no reason for me to sacrifice my good ideas on the off-chance I'd be chosen.

Add to that the fact that the submission guidelines say that WotC owns whatever ideas you submit and you do the math.

$100,000 for 10,000 new ideas? $10 per idea? Talk about getting off cheap!

Evan

Ten dollars per idea is about 11.00 too much.

Ideas are worthless. Everyone has a million ideas. What's difficult is finding someone who can turn their idea into an actual, playable, world.

Besides which, WOTC is only claiming ownership of the 'final 3' -- the ones they're paying 20 grand apiece for.

Tell you what. If you think ten dollars an idea is cheap, then, I will offer you this -- I will send you every idea I come up with, and you send me ten dollars for each one. No guarantees of quality. I will grant you my entire legal right to the idea, under current US copyright law.

Is it a deal?

[Forum Administrator]

Originally posted by Lizard
Tell you what. If you think ten dollars an idea is cheap, then, I will offer you this -- I will send you every idea I come up with, and you send me ten dollars for each one. No guarantees of quality. I will grant you my entire legal right to the idea, under current US copyright law.
Oooh, oooh - me too! Me too!

Hey, I give major props to the people who are too paranoid about their WotC stealing their Ultra-Kewl Campaign Wurld called Fraggin' Realms. Really, more power to them. One less sumbitch I'm up against for my $20,000.

Even if you took your Ultra-Kewl world and published it all by your lonesome with a Xerox machine in the basement, what are the chances that you're going to clear $20,000? How about $120,000? This is the JACKPOT. This is Willy Wonka handing you the keys to the Chocolate Factory. And I'm getting me a gold ticket. And all y'all better get typing because I'm already on submission #14 and counting.

[Forum Administrator]

Originally posted by EvanMoore
Just because WotC is experiencing creative issues and looking for free advice from the industry is no reason for me to sacrifice my good ideas on the off-chance I'd be chosen.

Add to that the fact that the submission guidelines say that WotC owns whatever ideas you submit and you do the math.
The first paragraph says: "I'm invulnerable to WotC! I'm invulnerable to monetary concerns! Look at meeee!"

The second paragraph says: "I'm actually afraid I might win and not produce or not get picked at all. To protect myself, I will now rationalize by creating consequences that don't exist."

Classic.

Freud would be proud.

[Jack]

Okay, some observations:

You ideas by themselves are not that great. Period. That goes for mine too.

All games and gaming material are in some way derivative and thus there will be duplications and thus people must be protected from those who can't understand this. This also further shows that all your ideas aren't that great by themselves.

No d20 gaming fantasy world idea is going to net you 100 grand any other way without an act of God or Congress or 3-6 years as a salaried game designer at a major game company. In fact, no "D&D but with ______" setting is gonna make money unless a big company is backing it anyway (which is why some of the wiser companies are using d20 for other stuff).
Since it has to be basically a slightly altered D&D setting, those who are submitting their "best" ideas are never going to get them in print any other way (i.e. Wotc is trying to buy a New Dragonlance not a steal the next Vampire). Me? I need to come up with a new idea since all mine don't involve D&D type worlds.

The finalists get 20 grand and need to realize that they may well see their settings be developed too even without getting paid 100 grand. Deal with it...someone just handed you the downpayment on a house for a few weeks work and its something that you could use to get more work...its a good thing.

So us the energy to write a sub instead of going all Duchovney on us. As much as I hate to agreed with John Wick, anybody who's looked at D&D real close probably realizes that what WotC's basically been selling us is revamped TSR settings and pretty rulebooks (not saying that's bad, BTW). A new idea is something they realize they need to go outside for and are willing to throw some scratch at it. Its the contest equivalent of work for hire and if you realize this then you'll be fine. If you really think your "Its like D&D but all the realm denizens are variants of the Slaad!" would net you 20 or 100 grand any other way..well, then I think you need to spend more time on a place I like to call Earth.

BTW, you can steal the Slaad idea...I won't squawk. ;)

[Concatenate]

Thanks Staffan - where'd you get this info from? Is there an FAQ I don't know about?

[Staffan]

Originally posted by Concatenate
Thanks Staffan - where'd you get this info from? Is there an FAQ I don't know about?
There's quite a big discussion thread about it over at ENWorld's message boards (test.cyberstreet.com should work - if it doesn't, go via www.enworld.org ). There are a couple of posts in there from Anthony Valterra (using the handle "Zulkir") who's brand manager of WOTC RPGs or something like that - basically, the guy who took over when Ryan Dancey left.

[dalziel_86]

Point 1.

This clause is pretty much a standard in *any* industry where the development of ideas is bought and sold. There are too many people out there with ideas that are only ideas for companies to be able to survive in today's excessively litigious environment without something like this.

Point 2.

Wizards have enough on their plate already without developing a whole slew of new settings. This is why they're selecting one final setting for full development. And on top of that, if your idea is *that* good but doesn't win, why wouldn't WOTC hire you to do it? I mean, if you want water, you go to the well.

Point 3.

The clause pretty much says "Hey, give us a look at your ideas, and if we like it a lot, you'll get to help develop it. If we don't, don't sue us if we use something like it, and we won't sue you if you use something like it". Of course, I wouldn't try pubishing an RPG based on the same concept you think Wizards stole from you and used in their latest release, but that's more a matter of competitiveness.

Point 4.

At this stage, all they want is one page. One page! You think they can extrapolate an identical setting to yours from one page of basic, basic summary! Geezus H. G. funking Christ! I'm going to be hard-pressed just to squash my ideas *onto* one page! so what have you got to lose? One page of an idea? With the chance of a ludicrous amount of cash compared to what you're giving them? To paraphrase an earlier poster, "do the math".

[RobMuadib]

Originally posted by Kuma

Even if you took your Ultra-Kewl world and published it all by your lonesome with a Xerox machine in the basement, what are the chances that you're going to clear $20,000? How about $120,000? This is the JACKPOT. This is Willy Wonka handing you the keys to the Chocolate Factory. And I'm getting me a gold ticket. And all y'all better get typing because I'm already on submission #14 and counting.

Umm, don't you think that is being excessive or something, or maybe you are trying to use up some stamps before the prices go up? :) I didn't remember seeing the part that said you should enter as often as you like, indeed, they mentioned going with a single strong entry is better.

Just my opinion, I am currently only planning on submitting one submission, but if everyone submits 10+ entries, then it becomes even more of a lottery situation. which I find unappealing in concept.

Though I suppose I could POOMA another world submission idea or two next week after I send in my first one. Hmm....

Rob

[Forum Administrator]

Originally posted by RobMuadib
Umm, don't you think that is being excessive or something, or maybe you are trying to use up some stamps before the prices go up? :) I didn't remember seeing the part that said you should enter as often as you like, indeed, they mentioned going with a single strong entry is better.
Excessive? No, I consider it the height of prudency.

You send in your one submission. The person who gets it has just lost a favorite cat, had a fight with the boss, has PMS ... whatever. Your submission is the next thing they lay eyes on. the circular file it just to make themselves feel better.

Hey, it happens. You're not talking about a random drawing, here. You're talking about the personal preferences of the people doing the reviewing. If that's the case, you need to hit as many potential good spots as you can with a wide range of possible reviewers. That means multiple, unique submissions. Sure, they SAY that a single strong entry is better. But what about MULTIPLE strong submissions. Besides, there's this:

All initial proposals that meet the listed requirements will be reviewed blindly (that is, without authors' names attached) by a panel of Wizards experts.

If it's blind, then the chances that all of my submissions passing muster with the same mailboy or sorter or reviewer is nil. And when the final ten come around, if I have five of the potential winners, then they can cull me out.

The guy running the thing has also said that for your own sake you might want to do just one entry, but there's no rule in the contest that says one submission per person. In fact, in the FAQ it says you can have multiple submissions.

Just my opinion, I am currently only planning on submitting one submission, but if everyone submits 10+ entries, then it becomes even more of a lottery situation. which I find unappealing in concept.
As the ancient sage once said: Tough badoogies.

But on a higher note, given the short running time of the contest (3 weeks), the fact that it's only being promoted online (it's not even mentioned in this month's Dragon) I think you're going to see fewer submissions than you think.

My 23 (and counting!) not withstanding.

Though I suppose I could POOMA another world submission idea or two next week after I send in my first one. Hmm....
POOMA?

[Rhombus]

Originally posted by Kuma

POOMA?


Pull
Out
Of
My
Arse/Ass (depending on what variant of English you choose)

Come on, ask a hard question next time.

[Jack]

I'll tell you though...its the guy with 200 subs who loses out to the guy with one. Why? Because fate's funny that way.

[Forum Administrator]

Originally posted by Jack
I'll tell you though...its the guy with 200 subs who loses out to the guy with one. Why? Because fate's funny that way.
But then again, the Good Lord helps those that help themselves. :)

I'll take my chances.

(#26 off to the postman!)

[dalziel_86]

I hope we're gonna see some of these submissions popping up on the web or in small press once WotC rejects them all :P

Anyone care to post theirs once the response date's up?


Me, I'm only thinking about a second submission. :)

[B. Miller]

I do wonder how they're going to judge them blind when you have to put your name on 'em...ah well. Ours is not to question why.

[Dan Norder]

Originally posted by B. Miller
I do wonder how they're going to judge them blind when you have to put your name on 'em...ah well. Ours is not to question why.

I think that can be explained by the instructions to put your name in the lower left hand corner of the proposal and no where else on that page. They'll probably cover that up with a flap on a folder or even just some paper scraps and paperclips.

Dan Norder
Inklings Press

[Saracen]

My guess is that all submissions will be photocopied with the name in the lefthand corner blocked out. Then they will put a number on the submission and the same number on the photocopy. If number 1297 is picked as one of the ten then they will pull the original from its spot in the pile, between entries 1296 and 1298 and see who submitted it. They'll then locate the cover letter so they can get the contact information of the person who submitted it.

This is how I handled blind submissions when I was an editor for a magazine.

[chaosvoyager]

Originally posted by Dan Norder
This is pretty much standard for any writing submission to any company. It has to be that way to prevent nuisance lawsuits from people who think that the company ripped off their ideas even though something similar was already under development.

I bet there will be large a group of people who signed the contracts who still claim, "Hey, WOTC ripped me off, I submitted an idea of a world where people in armor and cloaks fight dragons and monsters with swords and spells, and the winning world is obviously based upon mine, so I want my $100,000! ! ! !"

Even just a few years in the writing business and you'll run across lots of people like this who claim everything out there was based upon something they did and don't realize other people are perfectly capable of coming up with ideas on their own. There's some guy out there who has never published anything who still claims that Star Trek Voyager was his idea and that Paramount owes him money. We're supposed to believe that this guy came up with the same idea used in Lost in Space and even the Odyssey? I'd like to see him sue to claim ownership of the Greco-Roman myth cycle.

And, quite honestly, ideas are a dime a dozen. Companies and people in creative fields have way more ideas than they can ever get around to developing, and it's a sure thing that other people had similar ideas. It's developed ideas that are worth money. Copyright law recognizes this fact. Ideas aren't covered, only finished works.

Don't worry about it. You won't be able to deal with any publishing companies without signing a similar contract. Get used to it if you want to get anywhere.

Dan Norder
Inklings Press

I would like to add my $0.02, like always ;). Dan is right in that ideas aren't covered by copyright, but they are copied by patents. WotC owns only ONE patent, and that's for CCGs (and Magic: The Gathering in particular)

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ft00&S1=('Trading+Card+Game+Method+Play'.TTL.)

Now I ask you, has WotC EVER sued anyone over infringing on this patent? They could have, but it wasn't worth their time. You would be suprised what game related mechanics can be protected by patents, but I'm usually rabidly anti-patent when it comes to these areas.

Then again, WotC does have it's share of legal problems ( http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/73860_wcoast08.shtml ). If they can't trust their own employees, who CAN they trust? You also get fun shit like this, where lawfirms sue their own CLIENTS ( http://www.phaster.com/unpretentious/lawyers_and_pokemon.html ).

Ideas ARE a dime a dozen. I try to apply the third generation rule. This is where when I come up with the idea that will revolutionize gaming and make me a millionaire, I take it two steps further because someone else has already come up with it. Ideas echo, the smaller the community, the more similar the ideas created by the members within it.

Most of the ideas submitted will have more in common than not.

Originally posted by Quetzal
The thing to remember is you are not selling your ideas as much as selling yourself, your writing ability and (like someone said) your ability to develop ideas. Your attitude should be, "I don't care if you steal my idea, because I've got a million more where that came from." Make them want to pay for you, not your ideas.


Bingo!

You basically have one page to present your setting, while at the same time implicating why YOU should be the one to develop it. Practice makes perfect. If you can take the standard Forgotten Realms setting, condense it into one page, and make it exciting and uniquely yours, then you should have no problem selling WotC your own :)

Good luck.


"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure."
-- Mark Twain

[xenophon]

To add to the discussion, as a freelancer in law school, I'd like to point out that ideas can be protected by state law. Oddly, the fact that WOTC included a clause like they did could be some evidence that they were contracting for ideas and "could be used against them" should they try to rip off a truly unique concept.

The list discussion has been on the nose that Federal Copyright doesn't protect ideas.

Then again, from a practical standpoint, if you're joe contributor, good luck finding a good enough lawyer that won't get bulldozed by hasbro corporate attornies assuming WOTC has access to their in-house counsel.

I suppose I should point out none of this is legal advice (all legal discussion) to get me in good practice.

Regards all,
--Chad Brouillard

[Dr Yang]

It's done.
I have sent it off.
Godspeed to my creation,
may it fare well in the hands of the megacorporation.
I have my doubts about the quality,
I am not sure about originality,
but what I know for sure is this,
if it's not picked WotC can kiss ** ****!

[Mock]

I'm coming down to the wire on mine...polishing, polishing.

Postmarked by the 21st, it will be....it. will. be.

-Chris

[Rocket]

I've gotta say, if Wotc steals one of the two (or two of the two, for that matter) ideas I'm submitting, why, I think I'll just pee my pants.

The two ideas I managed to put down on paper just popped into my head. Frankly, they're the best setting ideas I've come up with to date. This is just further assurance that not only do I have good ideas, but I can continue to come up with them. Every setting, every campaign, every charicter I come up with is leagues better than the ones before.

DONT GET ME WRONG. This is not an open invitation for Wotc, or any one to steal my ideas. Fortunately for me, I believe in a sort of literary karma. Any little booger who steals my stuff is destined to be plauged with bad foot odor for at least 5 years (or something like that). I'm just trying to say that while I would find it personaly insulting that some one would steals my stuff, it's just no skin off my nose. I will always come up with better stuff.

Sure, I'd like to get paid for my ideas, especially when the agreement I've entered into with a company is on the basis that I will get paid. But, let's face it. This may be a once in a lifetime opportunity. If Wotc has to steal MY ideas they're in pretty bad shape. Either that, or I'm more terrific than I thought (not likely). Besides, I can always take comfort in the fact that they'll have really stinky feet.

:rolleyes:

Rocket
******

[Mytholder]

My new favourite conspiracy theory about the contest:

1) WotC announce contest
2) Ten zillion gamers go "whoa! I've got to enter this."
3) Ten zillion gamers make up new settings and send them in.
4) A considerable portion of the ten zillion think "hmm...y'know, I'd like to play a game with this new world I've come up with" and start new D&D campaigns.
5) WotC sell lots more generic sourcebooks to support all the new D&D games that start.

[Concatenate]

This is great, but any marketing exec this savvy would be brainwashing us from the CIA, not working for Wizards!


(EXACTLY...)

[EvanMoore]

It's also excellent Marketing Research.

They get 700 submissions that have "dwarves with guns" in them.

They get 1000 submissions with tall elves and 300 with short elves.

They get 1500 submissions with orcs that sing in barbershop quartets.

They crunch all the numbers, and roll out a game system that has *elements* of all of these ideas--playing to the numbers--while not actually using the specific ideas of any one person.

Therefore, they have some pretty advanced concepts on what the market is looking for, and willing to purchase. Not to mention a pool of thousands of submissions from writers from whom to pull the next generation of game developers.

Not a bad idea, really.

Great Market Research, done in-house, saving them millions of dollars in costs and establishing their new setting at the same time, rather than having to crunch random bits of data to find out that "more people like tall elves than short ones".

Evan

[Dan Norder]

Yeah, sure, number crunching to make a campaign world.... You don't make a good campaign by averaging the contents of a bunch of submissions. I'm certain that the ones that get selected will be anything but average.

Besides, after the new setting they already paid $120,000 for, and the ones they paid $20,000 each for, plus the ones they already have, they aren't about to make any more new settings any time soon.

Dan Norder
Inklings Press

[Rhombus]

Originally posted by Dan Norder
Yeah, sure, number crunching to make a campaign world.... You don't make a good campaign by averaging the contents of a bunch of submissions. I'm certain that the ones that get selected will be anything but average.

Besides, after the new setting they already paid $120,000 for, and the ones they paid $20,000 each for, plus the ones they already have, they aren't about to make any more new settings any time soon.


You're right on that but number crunching the trends themselves may help decide which of the top-shelf ideas they end up considering get the final nod. I doubt they'd completely ignore all that raw marketting data but I'd bet my left bollock that it has less impact than 'most' people suspect.

As you and several others have pointed out WOTC isn't going to be stealing ideas or pulling any swift dodges to cheat people when they'll be ponying up cash anyway. Might as well suspect the Lottery Commission are going to come and rob your house after you've won the jackpot.

[EvanMoore]

Originally posted by Rhombus
Might as well suspect the Lottery Commission are going to come and rob your house after you've won the jackpot.

Sure, take away all my favorite conspiracy theories. <humph>

Evan

[dalziel_86]

Actually, considering the small amount of exposure Wizards are giving this contest, any data for the 'market research conspiracy' is likely to be pretty useless, what with it being entirely unrepresentative an' all.

On top of that, there's the fact that people who enter the contest are mostly going to be the kind of people who make up their own campaign settings anyway, and hence aren't a tremendously good market for pre-packaged settings.

So basically the 'market research conspiracy' is to get unrepresentative data, from a market that you're not going to sell much of any resultant product to.

Smart. :)

[Concatenate]

Also, they'd have to crunch all of this data, which doesn't even come in crunchable form - it's not numbers of answers from a multiple-choice survey. They'd have to convert the prose answers to the Big Six Questions into categories, which takes more thought and effort than just data entry...It really wouldn't be worth the effort.

It's still a fantastic idea, though. I think tonight I'll go spread the rumor at my FLGS...

...then I'll bring up the black helicopters...

[Wacom Knight]

Well, I sent mine in and I'm not even a writer :D

Just an artist looking to make a break..sell out! sell out I say!!!

I sent mine out like around the 5th. I wonder how they are going to get through all of those by July 3rd when all of the reviewrs are probably thinkin of all the party spots to hit on July 4th?

[Elissa Carey]

No kidding. I don't know about them, but I'm going to Origins, and I have to leave oh-frickin'-early in the morning on the 3rd. If, by some unforeseen miracle, I make it to the second round, I won't know until I come back ... that is, unless they really mean by the 3rd, in the sense that you could actually be notified before then.

But what the hey - party anyway, right? It's either a pre-emptive celebration or pre-emptive pity party (preferably the former :D).

Thank Kibo I'm also not a judge. I don't know how they're going to keep their sanity (unless they're gonna sneak off to play some NWN now and then :D).

[Wacom Knight]

RPG company I worked with some time ago had a "blind writing contest" type thing. Well they got like 500 entries (as opposed to WOTC 500,000 probably), and a VERY short deadline.

Answer: They made piles of 20, shuffled them, took the top one of each pile (obviously letting fate decide) adn then read the final 25 and judged from those.


Wouldn't that suck?

Or they could even do the "take the first 100 they recieve" knowing that those people will hit deadlines, and the rest are just stragglers who might not be enthused to get thier work in early.
The ol corperate come in early attitude.

So they have parties in Dela Where?

[TSL]

Having done similar projects before, I'm pretty certain it will all come down to your first sentences - so I hope those that entered thought long and hard about making them as evocative/concise as possible.

You have a pile of 1000 entries. You've been told to weed through them for the best 100.

1st Cut - At a glance - correct spelling, presentation.

2nd Cut - Evocative/original first sentence.

3rd Cut - Content.

:D

[John Morrow]

Originally posted by EvanMoore
It's also excellent Marketing Research.

They get 700 submissions that have "dwarves with guns" in them.

So, should everyone have sent in settings about peg-legged dwarves so that life could imitate art? :-)