[TAFMSV]

Originally Posted by shortforbob

Starting HP looks pretty high to veterans of past editions. It’s true that a new PC won’t be killed by one hit from an equal-level enemy, but monsters hit harder than they used to, so HP can go down fast enough.

This is true. In the fights I've played, PCs are often found to be one hit from dropping.

Originally Posted by shortforbob

The real key to appreciating the surge system of 4e is placing it in its proper context: multiple encounters fought sequentially over the course of a day. A single equal-level encounter is not likely to be a real threat to the PCs’ lives on its own. But if they are careless early on, and need to spend all their surges recovering, they may not have enough to recover from later fights. If players have to sweat over each healing spell and first-aid, combat becomes far more intense and meaningful. Solitary combat simulations are a poor way to test 4e because they miss out on this dynamic.

Or,

The real key to appreciating the no-surge system of previous versions is placing it in its proper context: multiple encounters fought sequentially over the course of a day. A single equal-level encounter is not necessarily a real threat to the PCs’ lives on its own. But if they are careless early on, and need to spend all their HP, spells, and potions they may not have enough to recover from later fights. If players have to sweat over each healing spell and first-aid, combat becomes far more intense and meaningful. Solitary combat simulations are a poor way to test any version of D&D because they miss out on this dynamic.

Originally Posted by shortforbob

I would love to try a low-magic, sword-and-sorcery style game in 4e: eliminate clerics and other healers, as well as anything but the martial power source, force PCs to rely on their own healing abilities, and keep play at low levels. All strictly within the rules.

Yeah! I hadn't thought of that. I like what the OGL Conan did with the 3.x rules. 4e is very sleek and smooth, and it'd probably be a better fit for that style, with most of the magic stripped out.

Originally Posted by Seroster

What's wrong in this section... Hm.

First - it's true that having 10 healing surges makes a fighter very durable, and if that stretches your suspension of disbelief too far, fair enough.

However, a counterpoint: healing surges by and large provide an absolute limit on how much healing a character can receive. The only healing beyond (surge value) x (amount per surge) a character can receive is from healing powers, when they add +1d6 to the value of a surge, or do healing without consuming a surge.

Yes, there is a limit, but the limit is at a long distance. Maybe the 15 minute adventuring day has been made into a 90 minute adventuring day.

Originally Posted by Seroster

How much healing can a 3.5e 10th level cleric heal?

In 4e, most healing powers consume a surge from the recipient. Cure Light Wounds doesn't, so it's actually not bad, because it's extra healing the fighter would never be able to have access to.

I'm surprised nobody has bothered to mention the temporary HP that seem so plentiful in the low level games I've been playing in. Not only do characters have a lot of HP, and reserve HP in the form of surges, and healing magic, there are also the temporaries that allow them to soak even MORE damage.

Originally Posted by Seroster

Second - "encounter" powers can be recharged by 5 minutes of rest, and don't require you to be in a fight. So after a brutal encounter, the party could rest 10 or 15 minutes to allow the cleric to recast Healing Word, to give party members greater benefit from the healing surges used up. The alternative is just to use their healing surges at the end of the encounter, for the flat value given.

This out-of-encounter power recharge is something that's never occurred to me. If you're already taking a breather, why not make it slightly longer, eh? Makes sense. If anybody had thought to do that, it would've saved me a few surges in the sessions I've played.

Originally Posted by Seroster

Third - "Besides which the other characters are all too busy healing themselves to worry about needing a cleric." Not really so. They can use Second Wind once per encounter, that's true. But using it means giving up their attack that round. They risk a monster possibly smashing them again for the same amount of damage. So maybe that means on their turn they're going to withdraw from the fight briefly to use it... or they're going to want to fight on, and ask their cleric for healing without taking up their action.

I don't think anyone really likes giving up their offensive action in order to heal themselves.

Honestly, I don't really like getting stabbed in the face with a short sword, either, but I play anyway. If taking a single action to get the second wind is enough trouble to be considered a nuisance, maybe the PCs are in the wrong line of work.