Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew L. Martin
I'm watching the thread out of fascination and an unrealistic hope that Pathfinder and 4E will tear each other down enough so that Star Wars Saga Edition can emerge as the new market leader.  |
*cough*
Tangent: I think that'd be pretty sweet, from the limited amount I've seen of the rules. Then again, rather than wait and hope vainly for such a thing, I bought Fantasy Concepts when it came out. OGL based ruleset that seeks to emulate a lot of the SW Saga rules in a Sword & Sorcery fashion.
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperbac...source/1444818
And so this is vaguely on topic...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienfreak
You can't kill an ancient dragon with 1 hit anymore at lvl 11? How could Paizo ever do that to you.
That feat would be freaking stupid with the critical feats anyway.
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I play a fighter. I usually play fighters because I like classes that don't have a large amount of bookkeeping associated with them (like casters frequently do) and because I try to be an amiable fellow and play something that complements the group and what the party needs. And an awful lot of the time, it's a fighter; because an awful lot of people have some sort of a character concept in their head to do some funky thing and what the party really needs is someone to soak up the hits while everyone else is running around doing their special bit.
And I like the lack of bookkeeping.
My complaint might seem ludicrous, but my ability to _actually_ pull that off? It's not easy. So let's look at this again...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurvy_Platypus
Under the Beta rules, that means my dwarven Fighter would be able to do a Power Attack with Bard Song and the Haste from singing to do a single Attack at +15 to hit and deal 3d10+63 points of damage.
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The character in question is a dwarf with a 20 Con and an 18 STR (thanks to a belt of +4). The absolute best damage I'm going to be able to dish out with Devastating Critical (which I had to waste 2 feats to get) is going to be 93 points of damage.
The "ancient dragon" that I'm supposedly one-shotting? Sorry, it's actually going to be a "young" dragon. "Ancient" is 6 age categories higher. And packing 375 HP. If it's a White or Bronze one.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm
Most stuff at this level (12+) seems to be more than just a "duh, I swing my axe" kind of monster like an Orc. It's stuff with all kinds of funky abilities to go along with their big bags of Hit Points and their fluctuating AC. Anything that requires a Will or Reflex save, I'm boned. Yeah, maybe if I went for some hardcore optimization I'd be having an easier time of it, but that's not the way I roll.
And I shouldn't _have_ to try and wring every single last bonus out of stuff. Anyway...
My ability to inflict 93 _maximum_ points of damage is dependent on the Bard having Haste on me as well as their Bard Song. Bard Song only gets to be used a number of times equal to their level, so that's 12 times. Haste is a 3rd level spell, so that's a maximum of 4 times. In other words, it's taking 2 characters (mine and the Bard) working together to have a chance to layout 93 points of damage.
Just like it takes a Rogue to work with someone else to be able to bust out their Sneak Attack. Isn't the Fighter supposed to be the "premiere" damage dealer in melee combat? Why is it that I've got to fight so hard to be able to dish out damage, while super-ninja gets to be the skill monkey, inflict large amount of damage in combat themselves, and have all kinds of different conditions and everything put on an opponent from their sneak attack? Heck, just to get a few conditions, I have to blow feats.
The Rogue can actually smack something and Dispell magic for !%@#$% sake.
So, what's it look like if I don't have a Bard pumping me up with Haste and their Bard song?
Well as the character is currently written, going the Devastating Blow would be +11 to hit and do 3d10+57 (that's using Power Attack).
I seem to be running into an awful lot of stuff with an AC higher than 20. But if we assume I'm only facing AC 20 Critters, then I need to come up with a 9 or better on the d20 to hit.
That's not exactly great odds for a single attack out of the fighter and an average of 72(?) points of damage against 1 critter. And I'm really not going to be doing it "all day" because I've got a crappy enough AC that my hit points are getting chewed through almost every round. In Rise of the Runelords at least, I'm taking 20 and 30 points of damage at a swipe usually.
And right now, we're being harassed by a dragon which did _not_ get hit when I managed to bust a 35 to hit it.
Against yard-trash monsters, sure Devastating Critical is going to lay down some serious hurt in a single blow. But at the level at which you actually qualify for the stupid feat in the first place (level 11 as there's a +11 BaB requirement) you're fighting stuff where you _need_ to be able to do big damage. 1d10+19 with a to hit of +16/+11/+6 (what the character normally does without the Bard and doing a Full Attack with Power Attack) just isn't going to cut it.
This isn't some random thought-exercise for me... this is my dwarf getting beat down to under 10 HP every single freaking game in an Adventure Path (Rise of the Runelords) made by the same folks that made the game. Heck, the Adventure Path predates the game and I'm still getting my ass kicked.
Edit: And in case anyone mis-reads this... no, I'm not pissed or upset or anything. I'm just kinda blown away at the idea that Devastating Critical and Power Attack are so horrible they've got to be modified and removed entirely from the game. Especially the idea that the Fighter actually laying down some big smackdown in combat is "overpowered". Is the system mastery of Pathfinder supposed to be "don't take a Fighter" just like you shouldn't really take some feats?