Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Isis
...can flippers, and empire wardec corps are called "griefers" by a lot of extremely risk-averse players...
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I am not extremely risk-averse. Once I reach the point where I can routinely adhere to EVE Rule #1, I plan on spending a lot of time in lowsec. And I'm 100% comfortable with calling can flippers and empire wardeccers (and ninja salvagers) "griefers".
Can-flippers and ninja salvagers are thieves. Thieves are considered jerks in the real world, so it seems perfectly reasonable to me to consider them jerks in EVE as well.
They're also just as risk-averse as the people you're complaining about, which is why they're in highsec, stealing cans and salvage from unarmed or poorly armed miners and mission-fitted ships, instead of out in lowsec or nullsec where they might actually have a fight on their hands.
There's this notion among a number of EVE players in my experience that, since EVE enables certain modes of in-game behavior, those modes can't be criticized on any level. I find that to be a bizarre notion, and it's one I neither understand nor share.
CCP hasn't constructed an environment where all actions a player may take have the same moral freighting. They've simply constructed an online environment where I need to take matters into my own hands if I want to avoid EVE's various criminal classes or retaliate against them.
That's certainly an interesting way of creating an online experience, and it's one that I mostly enjoy. But it doesn't magically make people not jerks when they engage in behavior that would get them classified as jerks in the real world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Isis
Edit: I'll also point out that money isn't the only reason for killing people. Alliances need to defend their borders, faction warfare corps and even antipirates need to be wary of alt spies, and so on. Boiling the motivations of these guys to "griefing" even if they aren't in it for the money is simply incorrect, and is likely to earn their ire if you say it to their face.
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I agree completely. I was just trying to make my earlier message short and sweet, and didn't want to clutter it up with a digression about "Oh, but if you're in nullsec, things are very different, because..."
But, if you're in nullsec, things are very different.
EDIT: So, eh, I guess sometimes I
do use the term "griefer" as a value judgement, and sometimes I don't. I am large. I contain multitudes. However, the use of the term "griefer corp" in the thread-starting post was indeed a value-neutral use of the term, and was simply meant to distinguish a PK corp (which kills for fun) from a pirate corp (which kills for money).