Post originally by Nawara at 2003-12-11 04:16:24
Converted from Phorums BB System

> Whoa, whoa, whoa! Having open elections
> doesn't mean that the individuals' votes
> count.

No, they do... in very small amounts. That's how democracy works.

> Individual American citizens, even
> in mass, have not elected any of their
> leaders for a long time.

How did you come up with THAT?

> Popular vote means little to nothing in
> the US.

Not true. I'm not sure what your argument is here, but I have a guess:

"The Electoral College assures that only votes cast in swing states matter."

This is a minor issue. Sure, as a registered voter in North Carolina, my vote for a Democratic presidential candidate is meaningless. But that's because other votes in North Carolina are going to be cancelling my vote, and the remainder will be giving Bush his 14 electoral votes. Again, democracy, slightly modified for pragmatism. Besides, national polls affect voter turnout EVERYWHERE, and the electoral college only affects the President. If you think state and local elections don't affect the national agenda, talk to Bill Clinton.

> Add in the fact that the political
> choices are preselected and groomed to
> follow the party lines

If that were true, why is Howard Dean leading right now? The Democratic Party establishment does NOT want Dean (and neither do I), because he's unelectable, and, ultimately, the best way to assure that Bush stays in power. The establishment wants Clark (or Edwards. or Kerry. Just not Dean.). Unfortunately, Dean's GRASSROOTS campaign, based around winning support from naive college students and flaky liberals, is racking up support and small-scale campaign contributions (and a few large-scale ones, too).

> (doing what the campaign contributors are paying them to do)

This is naive and overly cynical. Yes, some people DO change their positions for campaign contributions... I've personally sat in on backroom discussions where such deals were made (these are usually on minor issues that nobody cares about, anyway). But the vast majority of campaign contributions come from corporations and people who LIKE the candidate. It's common sense... say you're a big pharmaceutical corporation who wants Bush's Medicare bill passed. Do you try to bribe someone who's ideologically opposed, or do you help someone who already agrees with you, regardless of whether or not you give them money, get themselves elected?

If you try to bribe politicians into changing their minds, you WILL get burned. You give them a chance to turn you down and go to the press, giving them camera time (and universally positive camera time at that), and starting an investigation into your practices. Smart corporations know better.

Does this all this corporate money mean that voters are disenfranchised? Not really... all the money in the world can't buy a single vote; politicians spend a HELL of a lot more time appealing to voters than to campaign contributors. If things were as you suggest, and politicians were all just puppets for Big Evil Corporations, then the people would vote them out of office. Really.

The reason it's not happening, even now, at the peak of the conservative cycle, is because people, as a whole, agree with the corporations. The average voter, for the most part, is seeing eye-to-eye with those Big Evil Campaign Contributors. That won't last, though... just wait for the trend to reverse (it's a natural law of American politics). Within eight years, expect to see a turn toward the Democratic party. And then, after that, a turn toward the Republican party. And then, after that, a turn toward the Democratic party. And then...

You get the picture.

The people who are "outraged" fall into three camps:

1.) People who don't know much (Nader voters, "No Blood For Oil" types)
2.) People who know better, but stand to profit from demagoguery (Nader)
3.) People who are outraged by the current dominance of Neo-Conservative ideology, not the political system itself (Clintonites, John McCain, various other people)

The third group is the only group anyone should listen to.

-Nawara