[Menchi]

It continues to impress me how you never seem to actually take the time to think about what I say before posting, Phish. You miss comprehend my points every time.

Originally Posted by PhishStyx

Wow. You REALLY didn't get the point of the game at all. There is NOT just a single villain of the setting. Indeed, everyone, including the heroes, have some element of the villain in them. The point of game is getting beyond those impulses to Enlightenment, which is a hard road that not everyone will succeed on. The Qliphonim and the Fallen Seraphim are clearly presented in the text as being not firmly on either side (though for the moment they fight on relatively the same side as the Host, they don't like it and are itching to jump away at any moment). Even the Heavenly Host doesn't really like what they're fighting for and are likely to fracture under a lot of pressure.

Funny. The whole point I was making was that the fiction implied this very thing, but the actual faction write-ups, scant GM material and antagonists section only talks about Leviathan. Hence my saying that the game wants to be Shades of Grey, but fails to actually support that with anything substantial in the setting material apart from one or two paragraphs in some fiction pieces.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but you appear to be saying that because it's Unisystem, it fails. Apparently it doesn't actually matter WHAT direction the game takes, the fact that Carella wrote it is bad enough.

Yes, you are completely misunderstanding everything I'm saying. I said that the book fails, which I find is common problem in unisystem products - not because of the system, but because of the structure and writing. I also mention that I'm amazed because CJ Carella also wrote Angel and Buffy, which I think are very well written RPG products. That's what amazes me the most. The same man, yet Armageddon is, at best, a ho-hum product.

The last two chapters are for the GM and run from pg 312 - 343. Of thos pages, exactly 1 paragraph gives a straight battle scenario as a thematic campaign option. You've apparently missed the other story options, plot directions and concept discussions.

No - I missed nothing - you've added more than is actually written. Pages 312 -336 talk about Leviathan and the Church of Revelations. They present a very black and white picture of the game. i.e. Leviathan's the bad guy nobody else. Then the GM's advice runs from pages 337 -343 and present nothing new or insightful about the game, no rules or advice for running a war time adventure - other than a very brief plot hook that essentially says "go to it."

You're deliberately implying that there is more information than is actually printed.

Apparently, you've confused much of the information that is intended to be public and that which is intended NOT to be public. Perhaps you could identify specifically which areas you had difficulty with, and we could help you sort the issues out.

I haven't confused anything. My review gives a pretty accurate picture of what is presented in the book. You're the one dealing in obscure comments here.

I don't see any point at which the setting and GM guidance connect to your alleged "unisystem flaw." Indeed, even IF I agreed on it's existence, it doesn't appear to be a flaw inherent to the game system.

I never said it was a flaw inherent to the game system. You have had a constant and consistent chip on your shoulder about my opinion of Unisystem. You have consistently misquoted me and misrepresented my claims to back up this axe - and then turned around on several occasions to accuse me of being the one with the irrational dislike for the game.

I have presented my reasons clearly in the review - and the fact that this post misses every point because it is predicated on a false assumption that I was equating the problems with the game system just goes to prove that you are more interested in arguing that actually reading anything I have in fact stated.

Let's be clear here, I have no grudge against Unisystem or Eden. I personally have not been impressed by the Classic Unisystem range because of a number of seperate reasons that when considered together, i.e. the fact that there are a number of things I do not find satisfactory, leads me to reach my conclusions.

I have said on a number of occasions that the system is robust and functional, but has its limitations - like all game systems. I have consistently rated unisystem products in the 3-4 rankings despite my issues with the products, because I do recognise that they are still of a reasonable quality.

So, really, in the face of the factual evidence, your assertions are clearly false.

Now the GM section issue is pretty clear - many people have stated that if you approach Armageddon from the view that it isn't for new GMs, then it is a little bit better. But the problem with that argument is that Eden doesn't promote the game in such a way. They claim that it is a complete game for anyone to pick up. It isn't.

The GM's chapter is far too brief and lacks any actual advice or clear idea of what kind of a game Armageddon is meant to be. The Adversary chapter, the history section and the associations chapter fail to present the shades of grey feel that the game wants to go for - and this would have been resolved if more effort had gone into *gasp* the GM's chapter.

I stand by my review - Armageddon simply does not make the grade, in my opinion. I presented my reasons why and the fact that you have to change my argument and make wildly vague statements to be able to counter my reasoning just further goes to support what I am saying.

Conan