[PhishStyx]

Originally Posted by Menchi

It continues to impress me how you never seem to actually take the time to think about what I say before posting, Phish. You miss comprehend my points every time.

You make an odd point here since I was thinking the same about you. And given how you apparently count oddness as being factual in your review, I suppose that I will too.

Funny. The whole point I was making was that the fiction implied this very thing, but the actual faction write-ups, scant GM material and antagonists section only talks about Leviathan.

Yes, the GM section discusses the minions of Leviathan and the other sections discuss Seraphim, Incarnates, humanity, etc. So what?

Hence my saying that the game wants to be Shades of Grey, but fails to actually support that with anything substantial in the setting material apart from one or two paragraphs in some fiction pieces.

So chapter 6 is a fiction piece or . . .? Because it looks and reads a WHOLE lot like a section detailing just how much the various groups really don't like each other all that much and could fall into squabbling and backstabbery fairly easily.

In fact, this section to me reads quite similarly to how a section on roleplaying in a Battlestar Galactica game might read, a show which would only have a single enemy detailed in the GM section, and yet which we see humanity turn in on itself every week in frustration and fear.

Yes, you are completely misunderstanding everything I'm saying. I said that the book fails, which I find is common problem in unisystem products - not because of the system, but because of the structure and writing.

There are no such things as "unisystem products." There is no Unisystem, Inc. There are Eden Studios products. Unisystem is a table top game system with two versions and 9 different game lines using them, split almost evenly.

I also mention that I'm amazed because CJ Carella also wrote Angel and Buffy, which I think are very well written RPG products. That's what amazes me the most. The same man, yet Armageddon is, at best, a ho-hum product.

No. At best, it is a GREAT product. But that's my opinion as the above is yours.

No - I missed nothing - you've added more than is actually written. Pages 312 -336 talk about Leviathan and the Church of Revelations. They present a very black and white picture of the game. i.e. Leviathan's the bad guy nobody else. Then the GM's advice runs from pages 337 -343 and present nothing new or insightful about the game, no rules or advice for running a war time adventure - other than a very brief plot hook that essentially says "go to it."

You're deliberately implying that there is more information than is actually printed.

Those two chapters constitute the GM's Section of the 350 page book. As in many other available core books, the GM's advice section is not necessarily a complete look at the setting. Indeed, this area is where Leviathan's army gets the most detailed discussion of the book. I'm not sure what you expected to find here, but it seems clear enough as far as I can tell.

I haven't confused anything. My review gives a pretty accurate picture of what is presented in the book. You're the one dealing in obscure comments here.

Except of course, that you skip discussing the subtlety of the setting in order to give it a trash review.

I never said it was a flaw inherent to the game system. You have had a constant and consistent chip on your shoulder about my opinion of Unisystem. You have consistently misquoted me and misrepresented my claims to back up this axe - and then turned around on several occasions to accuse me of being the one with the irrational dislike for the game.

Well, I certainly do not have an irrational dislike for it, and one of us does.

I have presented my reasons clearly in the review - and the fact that this post misses every point because it is predicated on a false assumption that I was equating the problems with the game system just goes to prove that you are more interested in arguing that actually reading anything I have in fact stated.

Reread your statement concerning it.

Let's be clear here, I have no grudge against Unisystem or Eden. I personally have not been impressed by the Classic Unisystem range because of a number of seperate reasons that when considered together, i.e. the fact that there are a number of things I do not find satisfactory, leads me to reach my conclusions.

The most concrete thing you said about the game system was that it was, in your opinion, "odd." And in a wide ranging field of contenders whose most notable qualities are that they are odd. Imagine that. So instead of recognizing this "oddness" as unique features, you swing the word "odd" derisively around at Armageddon as though it doesn't apply to other games, too.

I have said on a number of occasions that the system is robust and functional,

Where? I saw you complain about damage that you have to roll for (though not actually) and armor values that you have to roll for (though not really), and then turn around to complain that the game system isn't tactical enough to run a war RPG.

Really McKegg, you've twisted up enough arguments that you have to be tied up in your own rope by now.

but has its limitations - like all game systems. I have consistently rated unisystem products in the 3-4 rankings despite my issues with the products, because I do recognise that they are still of a reasonable quality.

Except for that part where you find Unisystem, Inc. Products to be odd.

So, really, in the face of the factual evidence, your assertions are clearly false.

Now the GM section issue is pretty clear - many people have stated that if you approach Armageddon from the view that it isn't for new GMs, then it is a little bit better. But the problem with that argument is that Eden doesn't promote the game in such a way. They claim that it is a complete game for anyone to pick up. It isn't.

Now suddenly because the GM's chapters aren't up to your vaguely high standards, the game isn't complete? That's certainly a new assertion on your part.

The GM's chapter is far too brief and lacks any actual advice or clear idea of what kind of a game Armageddon is meant to be. The Adversary chapter, the history section and the associations chapter fail to present the shades of grey feel that the game wants to go for - and this would have been resolved if more effort had gone into *gasp* the GM's chapter.

Again, chapters, two of them.

I still don't get what you want from a GM section that Armageddon isn't giving you, except that it's a Unisystem, Inc. Products book and fails simply on that fact alone, regardless of your denial, especially when you make such claims as that Armageddon is being marketed to new GM's.

New GM's would logically include younger GM's and thereby players, but I can't find any evidence at all of this. Would you care to back your assertion up with an actual fact this time?

I stand by my review - Armageddon simply does not make the grade, in my opinion.

Yes, we have that part already.

I presented my reasons why

. . .in the vaguest most ambiguous possible linguistic gymnastics.

Indeed.

and the fact that you have to change my argument and make wildly vague statements to be able to counter my reasoning just further goes to support what I am saying.

Conan

I have quoted, but not altered what you said. I suppose that yes, I do often make humorous observations of the various things you say, but you just make it so easy that sometimes I find I cannot help myself.