[Spectral Knight]

Originally Posted by Tori Bergquist

1. The Player's Handbook really does need some compiled charts and tables at the end to help. The first thing I did today was create a quick PC generation cheat sheet for my players that lays it all out in 6 easy pages with everything they need. The next thing I'm going to do is write up my own alphabetical powers index, because I agree, not having one in the book is an egregious oversight.

Considering that WotC is going to be releasing deluxe (and more costly) editions of the same three books in a few months, I doubt it was an oversight so much as a deliberate omission. Can’t have existing books ruining the chances for selling new ones. Or later supplements, for that matter.

Originally Posted by Tori Bergquist

4. I think it's weird that the magic items are in the PHB, as a grognard I instinctively feel they should be in the DMG. That said, I can also understand the logic of offering easy look-up for the player here, I suppose. But it's still wrong!

I think it makes some sense in light of the mention of Implements in each class’s description. Putting them in the PHB makes it easier for players to grok the idea of what implements are, and how they are statted out. If that’s the logic behind the decision (and there’s no way to know if it is, aside from talking to the developers), putting magic items in the same place makes about the same amount of sense.

Originally Posted by Tori Bergquist

6. The issue with the magic carpet does raise an issue I am surprised you missed: the absence of many things normal for core rulebooks. No druids, barbarians, monks....some missing magic items and spells....only 17 skills (albeit truncated and more efficient skills, which I like). Sure, it's all going to show up in future books eventually, but I am having a very hard time thinking of this as a true PHB without at least a druid and bard somewhere within! I have at least one gamer cohort who will not even try to play 4E until the druids are released in a future book, too.

Possibly another reason to buy the deluxe editions of the Core books.

Originally Posted by Tori Bergquist

8. No argument on the art. These books are gorgeous. It's really nice to see a batch of artists who understand anatomy, perspective, and ....gasp!.....shadowing.

Maybe, but it’s a pity Steve Prescott still can’t grasp the fact that most people have neither back-raking foreheads or long, sloping noses. There are no Rat-People in the Core books thus far, so his art doesn’t fit.

Then again, his being employed so often by WotC could mean that he’ll have no more opportunities to ruin the visual style of Shadowrun and Mechwarrior, a definite plus in my book.

Originally Posted by samkisko

The pdfs are torrents of the 3 core books, the real deal. They have been out for a week or two now.

I expect a wide array of responses to the game, love to hate. It will be interesting to see how many are playing it in say, 2 years. I think it will depend heavily on the quality of adventures and settings (for the love of god, no Ebberon).

Yup. The story I've heard being yabbed around is that somebody at WotC leaked the Core books to the intarwebs a while before its release. Another version says that the leak was deliberate, to build up anticipation for the books. Likely we'll never know which is correct.

And personally, I'd rather have Eberron than the Fraktastic... er, Forgotten Realms. Eberron was interestingly weird, and didn't have a bunch of divine busybody plot-devices running around putting their fingers, elbows, noses, and halitosis into everybody's lives.

Originally Posted by Davies

* A basic potion of healing (a 5th level magic item, which can only be made by 5th level characters and up) allows the person who drinks it to use one of their own healing surges to heal 10 hit points, rather than the character's normal healing surge value (set at one-quarter of the character's max hit points.) What's wrong with that? Well, by the time that a character with an average or better Constitution score reaches 5th level, s/he will already have over 40 hit points, and so get at least 10 hit points with every healing surge. Since you can use up as many of your healing surges as you like simply by taking a short rest, the only advantage to drinking a potion is that it takes only a minor action, restricting its usage for times when you don't have five minutes to take a short rest. In other words, by the time that characters are able to make this item for themselves, it isn't nearly as useful as it was when they had to find it.

Pretty expensive way to do something that you can already do, however convenient. It's easily houseruled around, but why have it require a healing surge in the first place? Why not just have it restore hp by itself, like they've always done?

Originally Posted by Menchi

The big question, though, is.... is that such a bad thing?

I note that there is almost a red scare level of paranoia when you see people say "it's like an MMORPG! It's not a roleplaying game!"

I fail to see how the two are so exclusive. MMORPGs are hugely popular. Seems good thinking to try and borrow certain design philosophies to improve your game. From actual play, I can attest that unlike MMORPGs, 4e has more variety in your actions and tactics. It's a very fun game. Also, unlike MMORPGs, all your powers remain fairly useful in later stages.

I personally think that some people just need to harden up a bit and stop being so quick to fly off the handle because a game isn't going for old traditional game design. This pisses me off as much as the "minis= bad roleplaying" argument. It's bollocks.

There wasn't a question at all in that explanation, only an iteration of factors in common, and a very accurate one at that. It is a very tactical game, and that could turn off players who were more interested in character development and interaction. And before this fact pisses you off, take a deep breath and note the word could.

Fortunately for said players, it can be played the other way, too. More abilities, and how characters use them, can sometimes provide great RP-fodder.

Originally Posted by Bean the Cat

Good luck. Although this review strikes me as a sort of "non-review" in ways, more an article on how it is poorly organized (if this is true or not, I don't know. I'll see when I get my books) and not edition "X".

It has some organizational issues, particularly for people who are used to older editions, and it badly needs a full-fledged index. And I don't just mean the PHB, but the entire 3-book set. It's 900+ pages of rules, many of which a GM will need to find quickly. Not having an index to help makes that task all but impossible with such a large page count.

Originally Posted by Bean the Cat

I certainly would like to such a review as well, with all the bitterness and rancor out on the "net", bashing 4E I think it will take a minor miracle to get a review based on This edition of D&D's own merits.

The rancor's had months to build up, and is easier to filter out in the reading because you know what to expect. I'd personally rather have that, and know where the reviewer is coming from, than to have somebody write a glowing review (sans fanboy confession) just to boost sales.

And before you say that nobody'd ever do that, check out Joshua Kublii's review of the Gamma World Player's Handbook (d20). He not only gave it a 5/4, a rating he was unable to justify even in his own review, but admitted to writing the review solely to attract players, purchases, and a longer life for the game.

Originally Posted by Jack

For me it's the terminology used. You magic boots are your feet slot item and the like.

Not that it's a bad thing, but it is a bit jarring at times to folks not used to seeing MMOspeak in an pnp rpg.

The 'slot' idea actually came from older editions of D&D and AD&D when those games were first translated into computer game form (to put the ideas in the games into 'computer logic'). MMORPGs' depiction of items, and how they're worn and wielded, evolved from this base.

Originally Posted by jeremywolf81

I can see from your post count that you're new. There's a pretty strong policy against piracy here just FYI.

Pointing out that the torrents exist is not advocating piracy, it's stating a fact.

Originally Posted by Roodah

You can't produce a valid review by reading the rules a few hours without even playing the game. If you think otherwise, you're mistaken.

You've just provided the definition of a capsule review, and thereby shot down your own argument. Had it been a playtest review, you might've had a point.

Originally Posted by mxyzplk

And the fact is, no one levies any of these charges at other capsule reviews of single books, except in the case of D&D 4e, which raises everyone's blood pressure so much that they just have to fight over everything regardless of pretext.

I agree. There's been a lot of hype and a lot of hate building up over the last year or so, and this is the first outlet that's come along. Some will like this game for no better reason than the fact that it's published by WotC (the greatest game company in the world!), and some will hate it for the same reason (great, another cash cow from roleplaying's answer to the Borg). Some will like it for the name, and that it's another way to use their D&D minis, some will hate it because it all but requires said minis, and they aren't cheap to get. Either way, the clash has been brewing for a long time.

Personally, I want to try this out. I like the new ideas for the classes, though I do miss the Barbarian, Bard, and Druid (and there's no way to play any of them right now, even as a different class). It's now a lot less complicated to play a Warlock or a Wizard, and that I like. Better? Worse? No way to tell just yet. Different? No question whatsoever of that. But until I play it, I'm withholding judgement, and reading reviews. I don't doubt that there will be more coming.