Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightwalker
I don't think rules supporting roleplaying are essential to the roleplaying experience, but at the very least I like to see a system that is willing to leave some "loose threads" to be decided by GM discretion based on the wild and crazy situations players get themselves into and their motivations for doing so.
What we see in the d20 system is a locked box of sorts. The designers have set out to ensure every loose thread has a reference within the rulebook, leaving less to GM discretion as designed. Yes, houserules can "fix" everything, but we are discussing the game as designed.
Because there are no "loose threads" to refer to, player innovation is limited to options within the thoroughly marked boundries of the system. Actually playing a role becomes more like dressing for the specifically defined action, which precludes the potential for highly innovative actions with complex motivations that are summed up with a simple, loosely defined roll left almost wholly to the GM's determination (the new Basic RolePlaying system handles this nicely with Effort, Endurance, Idea, Agility, etc. rolls that handle reactive and improvised situations).
Anything can be a roleplaying game, I agree, but I think people like to see their nifty ideas have a greater impact than a rather lackluster +x to a narrowly defined action.
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This may have been true of previous editions - but as a recent Dragon article stated about 4th, the goal was to have the DM make decisions about challenges.
Hence the Skill Challenge mechanic - it's loose and ambiguous so that individual DMs can tailor non-combat encounters to suit their style. It is structured so as to require the players to roleplay why they use certain skills to gain successes (the idea being that if you want to help you can assist the diplomatic PC, or use your knowledge of History/your ability to Intimidate etc...)
4th Edition is much like the original D&D - not a locked box, but a strong core system for handling combat with a loose system for non-combat that the DM can tweak to suit his or her play preferences. The benefit over original D&D is that 4e supplies a table that shows how to work out DCs and damage on the fly.
So many people have been obsessing over the PHB that they have failed to realise that the DMG contains the roleplaying aspects of the game - because like you, the designers wanted to leave loose threads that can be altered by the GM to suit the individual players in the group.
Conan