Crunchy Video Fighting Game Combat Example

[drkrash]

Originally Posted by nexus

Sounds good to me. Thug fights were a problematic issue in Thrash and the Streetfighter rpg. Individually Thugs weren't too dangerous (I think the suggested states for thugs in Thrash was a bit high but I digress) but in groups they could be surprisingly lethal since fighting multiple opponents was difficult in both systems. I suppose the writers assumed GM would use the genre trope that thugs/minion attack one at a time without it being made explicit.

That genre trope is actually built into the rules. It's not that you'll never be attacked by more than one guy at a time, but it usually won't be more than a few.

If anything, thugs are too easy to beat in my system, but I think erring on that side of the extreme fits the genre better than the opposite.

[Ahrimanius]

Yup reads much better.

So any idea we can expect this bad boy?

[drkrash]

Thanks, Ahrimanius!

Before I answer your question, a couple things I wanted to mention.

First, I can't seem to find my edit button to change this on the first post here, but I have to give mad props to Halfjack on the other thread for suggesting I change the format to this. I agree that it reads better, it's more accessible, and it was not nearly as difficult to write as I imagined it to be.

Second, I plan to finish one last turn in the present fight this afternoon. Then I have a "request" for a thug fight, which I will do next. If anyone actually has a request of some AP of situations they'd like to see, I'm happy to oblige! There is another optional combat sub-system that's meant to duplicate the kind of combat seen in an anime rather than the technical precision of video game combat. Perhaps I should show that too. Anyone interested, before I take the time to do it?

Now, to answer A.'s question:
I am on schedule for March 2010. If I have my way, I'll be early like I was for Wake, but it definitely won't be any earlier than January.

I have the artists all commissioned, the cover is almost done, the press release will be out in a couple weeks (I hope). Layout services are all arranged.

It should be about a 200-page core rulebook. It will be available in print from Lulu and as a PDF on DTRPG. Price point has not been set, but sadly, it won't be as cheap as Wake!

Thanks for your interest! More fighting coming!
Christopher

[nexus]

There's a time limit on how long you can edit posts. I think a Moderator could help you with that.

[drkrash]

Last turn of this example combat...

Rei: OK. We’re in range for my best Combos now! I’m going to spend 1 FS on Initiative and 2 FS on Control. That’ll be 1d8 and 1d12.

Director: Battle spends 1 FS on each as well. 1d12 and 1d8 for me. Roll them.

Rei: Initiative 8 and Control 10! Yes! That makes up for last turn.

Director: No, it doesn’t, I’m afraid: Initiative 9, Control 4. It’s Battle’s move first.

Rei: This guy is annoyingly fast.

Director: Yeah, but you’ve already seen that he can’t take a punch. He’s going to move in 1 Range to Range 0. And he’s going to do a Throw. That costs him 1 FS.

Rei: Are Throws unblockable like they are in fighting games?

Director: No, but they do get a bonus to Accuracy. How are you going to defend yourself?

Rei: I’m just going to use Defense; it’s my best Skill. So that’s 3. I’ll spend 3 more FS to give me a 6 Defense Total. That’s the best I can do.

Director: You could skip your action for the turn and go on Full Defense. It will add 1 more to your Defense Total and give you an Initiative bonus next turn.

Rei: That sounds good, I guess. Let’s try that. Defense Total 7. Rei instinctively reacts to Battle’s lunge forward and gets ready to respond!

Director: Alright. Battle is using his Heart Breaker. It has an Accuracy bonus of +1, and I get a +2 bonus for successfully Evading last turn. I will spend another 1 FS on Accuracy, giving me a +4 against your 7. The doctor is feeling a little cocky. [Rolls] 5! That hits.

Rei: Today is clearly not a good day to be the hero.

Director: Battle whispers in Oshiro’s ear, “You were going to defeat me, Oshiro? How were you going to do that? A family legacy is not the same thing as technique and experience. You don’t stand a chance!” The damage for the Heart Breaker is 1d8, which isn’t modified by your Stamina. Battle does have a +1 Damage Bonus, so 1d8+1. [Rolls] 7 – so that’s 8 points off your Life Bar.

Rei: OK. I’m down to 38 now. Crap! 8 points is higher than my Stun Threshold! I’m Stunned!

Director: Actually, you’re not. Damage from Throws is not applied against Stun Threshold.

Rei: Am I Knocked Back?

Director: Normally, yes, a Throw would knock you back to Range 1. But this move has the Hurl Element. Instead of Knock Back, you get hurled away 2 Ranges to Range 2. Also, all Throws Knock Down the opponent.

Rei: So I lose my action standing up, right?

Director: That’s right, you would. Except you chose to go on Total Defense, which counts as your action for the turn. So you will have to spend your action next turn to stand up. OK, so Battle closed in with Rei for a grapple and then threw him away 15 feet onto some jagged rocks.

Rei: Ouch. Oshiro groans in pain and frustration. Mostly frustration.

Director: Battle gets 3 Glory for using his Level three Throw. And you get 2 more Super Energy, 1 for the turn and 1 for suffering Life Bar damage. Battle gets 2 for the turn and for the Special Move. Hey, how much Super Energy do you have now?

Rei: Nine. One point away from being able to do a Super Move…

Director: Let’s see if you can make that happen. Time roll 2; we’re down to 89 and we’re at Range 2. You’ll have to spend the next turn standing up. Let’s see what happens!

And the battle continues.

[Next up: thug thrashing!]

[drkrash]

OK, by request from Nexus, here's turn 1 of 3 demonstrating a fight against thugs.

Grace Tanaka: ½ American, ½ Japanese. Ex-nun turned ninja. Her quest for justice has taken her to the bowels of Independence City, a crime-ridden dark metropolis ruled from the shadows by the infamous crime boss, Marcus Buchanon, also known as the murderous Black Tiger.

Grace has been following leads that have led her to a bad bar in a bad part of a bad town. After getting nowhere with the patrons, she turns to leave, only to be surrounded by a gang belonging to one of Tiger’s sub-lieutenants. A huge, tattooed brute steps in her way. “Cute little girl – you’re a long way from home.” He cracks his knuckles and laughs. With a steely glare back at him, she responds, “And you’re a short way from Hell!” And combat is joined! [Grace is only Power Level 1.]

Director: Nice line to get this fight started! This fight is taking place inside the dive bar. If it looks like it would be in a biker bar in a bad movie, it’s probably here. Even though it’s crowded and cluttered, I will not be using any of the rules for Environmental Hazards. Just use the scenario in your descriptions as you see fit. I’ll keep track of the time with a Time Roll, but we’ll just count it up from zero rather than having a formal Timer count down from 99. You will begin at Range 3 from your opponents.

Grace: How many thugs are there?

Director: Seven. 6 thugs plus the leader.

Grace: I have to fight seven guys by myself?

Director: Yes, but Thugs aren’t like Fighters. Their attributes are generally much lower and they are grouped together in groups of 10 called Thug groups. Each of these groups fights as a single opponent.

Grace: So, since there are seven of them, that’s one Thug group of 7?

Director: Actually, no. You see, Thugs are also rated on their combat ability from 1-5: Thug 1, Thug 2, and so on. Only Thugs of the same rating can be in the same Thug group. So there is actually a Thug group of 6 thugs and a second Thug group of 1 thug, the leader. He counts as his own group even though he’s alone.

Grace: So what kind of Thugs are in each group?

Director: Well, that you’ll have to find out the hard way. OK. Time for Initiative.

Grace: I’m spending 1 FS on Initiative, increasing me to 1d10. My Control is 1d6.

Director: OK. The thugs have 1d4 and the leader has 1d6 for Initiative. Roll!

Grace: An 8! Guess that means I’m going first! And Control of…3.

Director: Great! The gang rolled a 2 and the leader rolled a 5.

Grace: What were their Control totals?

Director: Thugs don’t roll Control because they can only use Basic Moves and they can’t do Combos. It’s one less thing I need to worry about when running them!

Grace: Well, let me try to simplify things even more for you. Let’s get rid of these rank-and-file thugs first. I step forward 1 Range to Range 2 and use my Spinning Sweep on them. It’s Level 3, so I have enough Control. It has Accuracy +0, but I’ll get a -1 for the Range. How do the Thugs defend themselves? Do they have all the options I do?

Director: No, Thug groups have a static number for Defense. They have no Evasion, no Tactics, and they have no Fighting Spirit. More not to worry about. Their Defense is a 2.

Grace: Really? OK. I won’t spend any FS. [Rolls] A 3! Hits! My damage is 1d6+1, and this move Knocks Down.

Director: OK. Thugs also don’t have Life Bar. When you hit them, they are either still standing and unaffected by the specific amount of damage you did, or they’re out of the fight. This is determined by a Life Save: a number or less on a d10 to stay standing. For these guys, only Thug 1s, their Life Save is 1. So I have to roll a 1 on 1d10 for him to stay in the fight. However, if you do a higher-damage attack, the Thugs’ Life Save drops even further. Every die size above 1d4 subtracts 1 from the Thugs’ Life Save. Because your attack is 1d6+1, their Life Save drops to a 0.

Grace: Does the extra +1 of the 1d6+1 matter?

Director: No; only the die size. So, a Life Save of 0. No need to roll. One down!

Grace: That’s it? One down already?

Director: That’s it!

Grace: So, normally, they’d suffer Hit Stun, and they would be Knocked Back 1 Range and Knocked Down. How does this work?

Director: OK, first, Thug groups do not suffer Hit Stun. It’s one of the few things they have going for them against Fighters. They are also not Knocked Back by regular attacks. So you are still at Range 2. Knocking Down a Thug group is special. Rather than Knocking Down the whole group, the effects depend on whether you took out your opponent or not. If you didn’t, they have to make a second Life Save as they hit the ground. If you did take out a Thug, then the rest of the group is Knocked Back 1 Range.

Grace: I knocked one over and the rest stumbled out of the way of the falling body?

Director: Sure! So, even though I said there was Knock Back, the Knock Down effect pushes them back to Range 3 again. Now, before the Thugs get to go, you have Thug Thrashing Skill, right?

Grace: Yeah, Thug Thrashing 2.

Director: Cool! For every rank you have in Thug Thrashing Skill, you get an extra full turn’s worth of actions. You can move, attack, even go on Full Defense while you’re still attacking! The only difference is that your Control roll is considered halved, round down.

Grace: So I get two more actions, but only at Control 1 each?

Director: That’s right! Go for it!

Grace: OK. I’ll do a Jumping Basic Move. I close 2 Ranges for 1 FS, land at Range 1, and throw a kick into one of the Thugs. No modifiers for Accuracy at all.

Director: Remember, their Defense hasn’t changed; still a 2.

Grace: Right. [Rolls] Another 3, another hit!

Director: As your Basic Moves only do 1d4 damage, the Thug gets his full Life Save: a whole 1. [Rolls] A 2. Nice try, guy! Two down! No Knock Back either, so you stay at Range 1. Next?

Grace: I whirl around and backhand another guy. All the same numbers apply, right?

Director: Yes. Go ahead and roll.

Grace: Another 3, and another hit.

Director: He rolls a 4 on his Life Save and he goes down too. Still at Range 1. Unfortunately for you, it’s their turn.

Grace: What about the leader? Is he at Range 1 too?

Director: Nope. He’s still back at Range 3. I track their distances from you separately. Their distances from each other is irrelevant. If you had an ally in this fight, things get a little trickier, but we could have put it all out on a very simple pattern on a piece of paper and everything would work smoothly. But we don’t need to worry about that. Anyway, the leader goes next. He advances two Ranges to Range 1. That’s all he gets to do. The rest of the Thugs get a single attack on you. How do you want to defend?

Grace: I will use Evasion. I have Evasion 2 and I will spend 1 FS on my defense. Defense Total 3.

Director: OK. Like Defense, Thugs’ Accuracy is standard and never changes except for Range, and even then, they usually choose to close instead of attack. These guys have an Accuracy of +0. [Rolls] A 4. They hit! Damage is also, you guessed it, standard for all of them. Their damage is 1d4. [Rolls again]. A hefty 4 points of damage!

Grace: Nice hit. I’m down to 26 Life Bar.

Director: You are also Knocked Back 1 Range away from that Thug group, but not the leader. That looks like the end of actions.

Grace: Yup.

Director: OK, so Grace stepped forward, dropped down, and swept the legs of the one of the toughs. As he tumbled back into his friends, she bounced up and placed a high kick firmly in one of their faces, toppling that guy over a table, while one of her fists whirled and slammed hard into another guy’s temple. He stumbled back into the jukebox, which breaks on impact. Meanwhile, the leader moved up behind Grace. As she noted his approach from the corner of her eye, one of the other guys smashed her hard across the jaw!

Grace: Sounds good to me!

Director: OK. You get 3 Glory for the Special Move. Check the time, which is 1d6 for a Thug fight… [Rolls] 4. So all that happened in about 4 seconds or so. One last end-of-turn task: a roll on the Thug Event chart for each active Thug group. [Rolls twice] An 8 for the thugs; all even results are no effect. The leader, however, rolled a 7: Exhausting Combat. He rolls his normal damage and applies it straight to your Fighting Spirit. [Rolls]. Seven.

Grace: Wow. I’m down to 1 FS already.

Director: Despite her control of the battlefield, evidently Grace is a little unsure of herself now that she’s surrounded.

Grace: The experience is bringing up memories of the men who attacked her convent back in my past.

Director: That’s awesome! Love it! Next turn…

[Zato-2TWO]

How many people does this system expect to handle? I could see combat going smoothly with maybe 2 or 3 PCs, but what about a group of 5 or 6?

Also, how would you handle a "boss" encounter, where it's a group of PCs vs a single adversary? Might I be able to request that as the next demo?

[drkrash]

I must admit straightaway that the system was designed for a smaller group. But that's also true to the genre.

So can I imagine a fight of, say, 5 PCs vs. 5 enemy NPCs? Or 5 PCs against a couple NPCs and their 100 elite bodyguards? Sounds awesome, but...Oy.

It could be done. I'm sure of it. The system wouldn't break. But it would be long. Now, for me and my group, that's not always an issue. We like a good tactical throwdown (we played HERO pretty consistently for 20 years). And, I feel inclined to point out, the name of the game is FIGHT!

But not every group wants to spend their whole session on one fight scene, no matter how interesting or important. I get that.

The normal way I'd recommend a 5-on-5 fight (for example) would be to break it down into 5 1-on-1 duels and to say that, even though they're all fighting in the same place, they don't interact with one another until someone is KO'd and the standing fighter joins another fight. That's differently complicated, but much easier to manage and not at all untrue to the genre.

And, as I'm thinking and typing at the same time (always a mediocre idea), my suspicion is that a 4-on-4 or 5-on-5 would "clump up" in attack range (Ranges 0-2) pretty quickly and stay there. At that point, people would be whaling on each other consistently and a quick game of "beat up the guy with the lowest Life Bar" would probably commence...Yeah...it would be long...but it would be manageable. Guess I know what I'm trying this weekend!

After a couple more rounds of the thug fight, I'll do a 2-on-1 fight for a few rounds (2 lower level PCs vs. a higher-level villain). I'd happily try demonstrating something bigger like 4-on-4; my hesitancy there is taking the time to type it out!

[drkrash]

Here's Turn 2 of the thug fight. I think you can see where this is going. I wish I could do the last turn tonight, but I have a game to run. After turn 3, I'm going to start a 2-on-1 fight, by request of Zato. I also have talked to one of my playtesters and we're going to do a 5-on-5 fight, all in action at the same time, to see how it goes. I'll report back on it. I suspect it will resemble something akin to superhero combat.

Anyway, back to our ninja nun:

Grace: OK, to summarize: there are 3 thugs left and their boss, right?

Director: That’s right. Time to roll Initiative.

Grace: I can’t afford to spend any FS, so I’ll be using my normal rolls. Uh oh. Initiative 3 and Control 4.

Director: The thugs get a 4 and the boss gets a 1. The Thug group goes first. Since they are at Range 2, they advance 1 Range and attack. How will you defend?

Grace: I’m still using Evasion and I’m going to have to rely on my skill alone. Have to save that last point of Fighting Spirit for when I really need it! So my Defense Total is just a 2.

Director: OK. [Rolls] A 3. They took advantage of your obvious distraction and hit you again. Damage is… [Rolls] Another 4 points!

Grace: Ouch! 22 Life Bar remaining. Time to put an end to this. It’s my turn and I’m back at Range 2, right?

Director: That’s right.

Grace: OK. For my first action, I’ll step forward to Range 1 and I’ll use my Rapid Spear Hand. It has Accuracy +1.

Director: The Thug group’s Defense remains 2; remember, it doesn’t change.

Grace: Right. So I don't need to roll to hit with a +1 Accuracy. This attack does 1d6+1, so that’s -1 Life Save, right?

Director: Yup. 1-1 is zero. Thug number 4 goes down. Second action?

Grace: Well, half my rolled Control is 2. Can I do a Combo on Thugs?

Director: Yes, but it still only affects one Thug.

Grace: Oh. So why do it?

Director: Two reasons. First, it’s worth more Glory. Second, a Combo, even of all Basic Moves, also subtracts from the Thug’s Life Save. I suppose that second reason doesn’t matter much against these guys.

Grace: I’ll do it anyway. I only have Control 2, so a 2-hit Combo of Basic Moves. Accuracy +0 against Defense 2. [Rolls] A 2. Another hit. Damage is 1d4+1.

Director: Right. Normally, 1d4 wouldn’t subtract from their Life Save, but a Combo always subtracts 1. So, another one down.

Grace: Hey, this is getting easy! I’ll do the exact same thing on the last guy. [Rolls] 5! And that takes care of the Thug group, right?

Director: Yup, that’s it. It’s just and the leader now, and it’s his turn. Fortunately for you, all he can do is advance to Range 1. That’s what he does and that’s the end of the turn. He still gets to roll on the Thug Event chart. A 5: Plenty of Room. Well, that certainly makes sense after this turn! His Initiative gets increased by one die size next turn.

Grace: Bring it on!

Director: You get a total of 7 Glory that turn: 3 for the Special Move and 2 for each of the 2-hit Combos.

Grace: 9, actually: the Rapid Spear Hand has the Increased Glory Element, so that’s plus two.

Director: Right. Time check. [Rolls] 4. The fight has lasted about 7 seconds. While Grace hesitated, the remaining toughs closed on her. One of them threw a kick into her side.

Grace: Yeah, but that was just what I needed to shake off the distraction. My hand shot out like a blur, driving dozens of spear hands into his face. I followed that with a knife hand and a jab to the next guy, and then a cartwheel kick on the last guy over the bar. Tables and chairs went flying.

Director: And then the boss moved into the space cleared out by you and cracked his knuckles.

Grace: So let’s get to the next turn already!

[drkrash]

Last turn of the fight...perhaps an anticlimactic conclusion...

Director: OK. It’s down to you and the boss, and he’s using the space cleared out by the brawl. He’s flexing and throwing a few punches into the air. His Initiative increases to 1d8 this turn.

Grace: I’m still not increasing my Initiative.

Director: Then let’s roll it. [Rolls] 7!

Grace: Ha! 8! I go first!

Director: What was your Control?

Grace: Oops. Forgot to roll that. [Rolls] 3.

Director: You are at Range 1.

Grace: Perfect. I’m attacking with my Leaping Elbow Strike. No Accuracy modifier. What’s this guy’s Defense?

Director: He has a 4.

Grace: Oh! In that case, I guess I’ll use my last point of Fighting Spirit for a +1 Accuracy. [Rolls] A 3. Hit! That worked out well. This attack does 1d8 damage normally.

Director: So that’s 2 die sizes above 1d4, which means -2 Life Save for him. His Life Save is normally a 3, so it’s reduced to a 1. Here goes nothing! [Rolls] 5. Despite his desperate attempt at intimidation, he’s felled in one blow!

Grace: Even if that hadn’t taken him out, I still would have had 2 more chances to attack him with Basic Moves.

Director: True. Let’s check the time… [Rolls] A 4. A total of about 11 seconds. You get 3 more Glory for the Special Move. What’s that make your total?

Grace: 15.

Director: Impressive. However, all Thug fights are only worth 1/3 Glory, so you end up with 5. Now that the men are sprawled all over the trashed bar, a mysterious figure who you hadn’t seen before steps out of a room in the back. “Ms. Tanaka, I think we should talk…”

That's it! If you're still here, thanks for reading all this!

Zato had a request for multiple fighters on one, so I'm going to do 2 Power Level 1 Fighters against 1 Power Level 3 Fighter. I won't do the whole fight, but I'll do a few turns to show how multiple combatants work. I'll start typing it now - I should have the 1st turn up today.