[Exalted] Setting Gripes

[Patkin]

Originally Posted by mindstalk

Which is kind of vague. I assume someone dead in Creation can't be brought back -- but if you die in the Sea, can you be brought back so that Creation never notices you'd died at all, since it was in the Sea?

From what I could work out from 1st edition, the Sea of Mind basically just worked the same way fate snarls would occur.

Sure, you should've drowned in a lake when you were twelve, but you didn't. You grew up, got married, had kids who shouldn't exist. And then when a Sidereal finally comes along to fix that snarl... well, those kids still exist.

The Sea of Mind is a very considerate GM, who was willing to let you get away with everything. And then he has to take a break for a week, and Creation takes over and starts breaking out laughing at your character's back history.

[Boogaleeboo]

I don't really see the problem with anyone potentially learning the Yozis "Do whatever the hell they want to causality" Charm. As all a Yozi is is Charms, and you'll have to get all the prereqs, by the end of that road all that's happened is you've made yourself a perfect copy of Malfeas. Only you aren't bound in Malfeas.

How is this a net gain for Creation? What have you really gained there but building a better Yozi? Besides, it's probably one of those "Blah blah blah Primordial essence" "blah blah innate nature" "blah blah blah incompatible with the light of the Unconquered Sun/Oblivion soaked energy" Charms that the Eclipse analogues can't learn. Which basically means it's only open the Yozis, possibly the Akuma, and more importantly the GSPs. And the Green Sun Princes have always had as their most threatening point "Can became all Yozis, and more, and aren't bound". That's not a bug, it's a feature.

[robertliguori]

So, how does causality manipulation interact with Perfect Defenses? Can a Solar in Malfeas accomplish a personal goal than HGD Malfeas's rewriting of reality, thereby being able to Groundhog-Day subsequent events?

[bucket of cats]

So, if everything I've read in this thread (about the loom of fate) is leading me correctly, shouldn't there be room for Sidereal charms that let them
*Step outside of fate
*Muck with things that SHOULD HAPPEN (they stab someone, they bleed)
*Things that SHOULD NOT HAPPEN (stabbed guy is also not bleeding)

And then forcing the event to happen; They stab a guy, he will be bleeding after the effect ends, but for now he doesn't know it.

Letting a victim think they're ok (soaked it, just a scratch, what have you) and then all the combined stabs can come down at once, later, when the siderial allows themself to step back into fate and the spiders can start piecing the combat back together.

Which would be outside the effect of charms that react to an attack directly... if the target opted not to react to a zero damage effect, they would be without a defense later.

Of course, the pattern spiders hate it when they do this, beings outside of fate don't get the events confused at all (they get stabbed, start bleeding as normal)..

Could lead to a lot of siderial personal duels taking place outside of fate; one for paperwork reasons, two because it's a lot safer..

Just some rambling. It doesn't have to be a stab wound; maybe they could explore a series of options simultaneously over a scene, and then pick the one that worked the best (pattern spiders hate this one even more). Letting the Sidereal roleplay out a few plans over a unit of time; Essence 4 sidereals could explore 3 options over 1 scene, or 2 options over 2 scenes, or one over 3 scenes...

-cat, bucket of

[Inquisitive_Englishman]

Originally Posted by robertliguori

So, how does causality manipulation interact with Perfect Defenses? Can a Solar in Malfeas accomplish a personal goal than HGD Malfeas's rewriting of reality, thereby being able to Groundhog-Day subsequent events?

a) Malfeas history-rewrite isn't a physical attack, therefore HGD isn't applicable.

b) A Solar can't be affected by the rewrite, nor can any event he played a part in, unless he consents and gives the past 5 days of his life to Malfeas.

[mindstalk]

Originally Posted by robertliguori

So, how does causality manipulation interact with Perfect Defenses? Can a Solar in Malfeas accomplish a personal goal than HGD Malfeas's rewriting of reality, thereby being able to Groundhog-Day subsequent events?

Originally Posted by Malfeas.pdf

Most importantly, they cannot change the history of any
creature they did not create, or who has not submitted
utterly to their power.

If you're a *mortal* you can "perfect defense" the rewriting, by virtue of not being Yozi-spawn or submissive. They can probably make you submit, but by that point the re-writing is almost redundant. For a Solar you don't need HGD, you need Sagacious Reading or Elusive Dream Defense.

[mindstalk]

IIRC there's a Charm for stepping outside of fate.
And yeah, there's room for lots of other Charms, but canonically the Maidens didn't make them and Sidereals can't make them.

[Five Eyes]

Yeah - Most Sidereal Charms already tend to get "clever" with causality and/or the "backstage" aspects of reality, amending new properties onto existing objects ("These are arrows now. I know they're arrows, I just launched them with a bow.") or delaying or displacing effects ("As long as the poison's effect happens after it's caused, when it happens or to whom is just needless detail.")