Free can include professional material given away (the SRD, TSOY, JAGS Reign Supplements, MSH, ZEFYRS, Witchcraft ) too. Some of it is bad but some of it is very good .We call this freegal Heck even radio and TV are free (or all you can eat for a fee)
And of course I agree that some free material is good, since I write free material for here, for BoardGameNews, for Tradetalk magazine, for Hearts in Glorantha magazine, and for lots of other venues in past days.
(And I even write some material for Signs & Portents that I get paid for ... then is given away for free; that's a very nice model!)
The point is, there's still desire for the non-free material, either because it's better, because it's official, because it's more reliably good, because it offers elements not available in free material, or something else.
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Now of course we can agree to disagree on this Shannon .No matter what I applaud your efforts at improving the hobby. Both in writing, with this board and by setting out ideas.
The point is, there's still desire for the non-free material, either because it's better, because it's official, because it's more reliably good, because it offers elements not available in free material, or something else.
I 100% agree. So long as we realize the low scarcity model we are using and we don't try to apply old scarcity driven models to it we should do fine. There is always room for quality
Thanks for the discussion
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When you are an extradimensional creature made of knives, job opportunities that aren't explicitly murder-related are thin on the ground. Front Toward Everybody on Bladelings
Firstly, the only reason I'll ever go for pdfs is availability, and (sometimes) price. Even then, I'll always print them out before reading- I don't like reading too much text on a computer screen of any kind.
Secondly, I worry about whether it will be possible to read a pdf in (say) 20 years time (I imagine it will be about possible as reading a ZX Spectrum tape today, ie: doable, but not easy). What about 50 years? 100 years?
This troubles me about things being electronically stored in general. If people can convincingly reassure me here, I'll be a happy man.
Without making a judgment about bittorrenting, accept that it's not a mainstream method of distribution.
Without being overly nit-picky - it may not be a current mainstream method of RPG book distribution, but it's certainly being used for other content distribution. Many Open Source Software projects release via bittorrent - and the most popular MMORPG in the world releases patches via a bittorrent clone. IMHO - the fact that it isn't being used by RPG creators is more a failing of the creators than the technology.
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Originally Posted by ShannonA
You're talking about a philosophy: information wants to be free.
Contrary to your interpretation, the point I was trying to make (unsuccessfully) is that it isn't about philosophy or information "wanting" to be free. It's about technology, economics, and reality.
The simple truth is that digital files are effectively an infinite good. While there may be a substantial cost in creating the first copy, the marginal cost of every additional copy is zero. DRM attempts to circumvent this reality by applying limitations on copies to the point that digital files can be treated like the scarce goods they are replacing: physical media. Any limitation you add to the file, for whatever reason, is going to make the limited file less valuable - and adding that limitation is going to entail an added cost to produce the file.
Unfortunately, given a choice between a unencumbered digital file and an otherwise identical file crippled by DRM, there is virtually no compelling reason to choose the DRM file. If there is no incentive to buy, basic economics states that the good will not be bought.
Technology has already changed. There is no point (at least to me) to try and salvage the old market by applying arbitrary restrictions to the new market. Eventually new business models will arise that allow the authors to be paid, and provide meaningful long-term access. The question is - do we start working on these new business models now, or do we cling to the past in a desperate and ultimately futile attempt to deny the change?
The current trends suggest that "professional" or "paid" content will continue to be made. Many people still prefer physical media to digital, and even those that prefer digital have proven that they will pay for such content (even when it is also available for free). The secondary market for digital content may evaporate - at least until we develop some legal construct to facilitate it again.
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Originally Posted by ShannonA
I'm talking about a reality: when a PDF goes out of print, it can no longer be found by the average browser on the internet, and that same average browser who doesn't want to break the law (or is afraid to, or whatever) no longer has access to it. Likewise, no professional site is going to make it available without permission from the creator.
Keeping a PDF "in print" requires minimal resources - basically bandwidth and hosting costs, which could theoretically be crowd-sourced - so the necessity of pulling a PDF "out of print" should be a relatively rare event.
Given the large number of locations to publish material, I think the content creator would have to actively want to remove accessibility to the content to make it impossible for the average browser on the internet to locate.
If another professional site wants to make it available, assuming they already know about the product and expect to be able to cover the marginal distribution costs, it should be a relatively simple affair to get permission from the creator. If not - it is a failing of our deformed copyright system, and not the PDF market.
Based on that, I would assert that the only way a PDF can be truly unavailable is if one or both of the following is true:
The original author(s) simply does not want the content available
The market for the content is insufficient to cover the minimal costs of distribution
Assuming that I still want access to the content, in either case I would see what other formats the content might be available in. Find an eBay/Amazon book listing, find a friend who will loan you a copy, borrow it from a library. If the content is not legitimately available in any form at any cost, only then would it really be necessary to turn to the illegitimate market.
From my perspective, this is an advantage of the digital file. Even if the content has been taken out of print and is not legitimately available, there is still a chance the file can be available via illegitimate routes, and access to this otherwise "lost" content has never been easier.
True, breaking the law is something I'd much rather avoid. But as explained above, if I've already attempted every legitimate means of acquiring the content, it can be argued that I'm not really causing harm. If no one is willing to sell me the content, and it's still accessible, why not download it from bittorrent? If your conscience pricks too much at the thought, then you can choose to read it once and then delete the file (something I would consider "legal" - given the numerous options to borrow content from friends/libraries), or simply not download the file at all.
If you choose not to download the file in this extreme case - then I would assert that there are plenty of other people to blame for your inability to access the content - far more so than the PDF technology. Put simply, if the content is worth enough to even one person to go through all this effort, it should certainly be worth enough to cover the bandwidth/hosting costs associated with distribution and a little extra for profit.
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Originally Posted by ShannonA
I don't *think* that changing the model of information distribution is the easiest or most likely path for resolving that issue. Not with big financial interest who will spend billions of dollars to keep it from happening.
So, I'm looking for solutions in the reality of the present, not the philosophy of the future.
Corporations can spend billions of dollars trying to keep it from happening - but the simple truth is that it will happen eventually, regardless of how much money is thrown at the problem. Trying to prevent it merely delays the inevitable, wasting all of that capital.
Consider - if a corporation wants to fight the digital revolution, they will have to invest incredible amounts of money every year simply to prevent piracy. They will have to spend this money every year until the end of time. Or - they can spend a large amount of money now to change their business model to match reality. Any one time expenditure - no matter how large - is guaranteed to be smaller than an infinite series of payments, no matter how small. Eventually, the heads of corporations will realize this and make the necessary change. I would argue that this is happening already.
The future is now - and the sooner we (and the big content corporations) accept that, the sooner we can build the solutions that will benefit everyone.
How to Solve the Problem:
Technology a.k.a. DRM - I think I've given enough evidence that this is not a tenable solution. The best it can do is make content less valuable and more expensive to produce. If this is the ultimate strategy, it will lose to piracy in the end.
Legal, a.k.a. Sue the Customer - The RIAA seems to have had some success with this strategy to date. I do have to question, however, whether laws that make a substantial fraction of the population criminals merely to protect the business models of corporations unwilling or unable to adapt are just.
Business Model, a.k.a. Adapt and Thrive - This is the only long-term solution that makes any sense to me.
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You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me...
Firstly, the only reason I'll ever go for pdfs is availability, and (sometimes) price.
This makes a whole lot of difference. I have a store of rpg stuff in my computer. Add to that a lot of history stuff, fiction stuff, etc. stuff, and it means a lot more than I would be able to afford to pay for or to store in my house.
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Secondly, I worry about whether it will be possible to read a pdf in (say) 20 years time (I imagine it will be about possible as reading a ZX Spectrum tape today, ie: doable, but not easy). What about 50 years? 100 years?
I hope both of us will be around within 100 years to reach a conclusion. Still...
Do we really know what's the fraction of the things published in paper form 100 years ago that survived until today? I guess most of of the stuff is gove forever. Whatever survived was the things people considered worthy of preservation - for instance, in public libraries. I'm sure a similar phenomenum will happen with pdfs (and other digital media). A lot will be lost, and a lot will be preserved.
The funny thing is that today I'm able to reach a lot of things published 100+ years ago... due to digital media! I mean publications that are so obscure no one would reprint the few copies left in some library somewhere. I would not be able to find a printed copy, and most likely if I found one I would not be able to buy it. But digital copies are making all these books and publications available for me.
So, past and current trends show that the advantages of printing are somewhat overrated when compared with digital media.
The problem with PDFs is that they are formatted in exactly the same format as the printed copy I can buy. If I'm buying an electronic book so I can print it out, I really would rather not have to have a full-color copy exactly like the book. The costs of printing out my own pdf copy of something I buy at drivethruRPG is going to be as much or more than the cost of just buying the mass-printed copy.
The nice thing about various forms of e readers are that I have the meat of the content without the gristle of the fancy borders and binding. I don't need that stuff when I'm reading a book on an e-reader or a laptop. I really want a searchable piece of text that can be rendered quickly. Like an ebook. Like in epub format. I don't need the pictures, unless it's a chart, and then, well, epub format isn't going to work for a chart.
If Wizards of the Coast packaged an epub version of the 3 core books, or even 3 apps for the ipod touch/iphone that cost just as much as the hard back, I would have bought them, as long as they had a decent search, hyperlinked table of contents, and index. I would much rather pull out my phone and search for grappling rules, or some random feat, than pull out the hardback book, or open up my laptop and scroll through Acrobat Reader or even something faster like Foxit to find a piece of text in a non-indexed PDF.
I work for a company that publishes a lot of its titles as epub and mobi formats as well as pdf... they're able to do that because the raw data is stored as XML. You can convert that to whatever you like, even HTML.
pdf is great if you want something to look exactly as it did printed out as a hardcover book. It is not great as a format on an electronic reading device, in my opinion.
The way that media is consumed is in flux, as we all know. Where it's all headed is anybody's guess. In my opinion the Netflix/Hulu style business model is pretty much the future... that is to say, you pay for a monthly subscription for a media service (ideally one that covers all forms of media) and get access via your computer/TV (they will be indistinguishable in 10 years) to anything you want. Books, movies, music, news articles, anything. For cheapskates there will be the option to endure commercials. The creator(s) of the product(s) you download will be reimbursed based on how often their products are accessed. Nothing will be "out of print" (by which I mean inaccessible) except stuff that is pulled for legal reasons which will be pirated until the end of time. Hardcopy will exist mostly for libraries, collectors, and people who would rather bring a paperback to the beach than their Kindle. The poor will be totally dependent on their local library, which will also become increasingly digital. So says my crystal ball.
Last edited by blah & meh; 11-07-2009 at 08:19 PM..
Reason: clarification
I think the RPG industry can learn a few tricks from the webcomics industry.
The business model of most webcomics is to provide the content for free on the web but also sell print books (often through print-on-demand outfits like Lulu) and collect donations online (by providing a "donate" button that connects to PayPal). Additionally, many webcomics also sell merchandise such as T-shirts and mugs (often also through print-on-demand at CafePress or such).
The idea is that you basically get rid of piracy as the electronic content is available online, but you still earn some money by selling the extra products such as print books and merchandise. You, of course, risk selling very little, but with print-on-demand you don't risk having expensive unsold copies. Phil Foglio has said that he sells more print copies of Girl Genius after making it a free webcomic than before, since many readers of the online comic also buy the print books (I, for one, do so).
The printed books allow a secondary market that keeps the content available even if the online outlet disappears.
One key aspect of webcomics is that, while they are easy to view online, it is not easy to download everything to your computer, since it is spread over a multitude of web pages. This gives extra value to the print form, as it is usable without Internet access.
Regarding the "First Sale" doctrine, why can't it be handled the same way as other products?
You go into a store and walk out with a piece of merchandise... and a receipt proving you paid for it.
There's no reason you can't sell a PDF and give a receipt showing proof of sale. It's a good idea to keep a copy for yourself, in case the buyer throws it up on a filesharing network, to prove your release of interest. It's also a good idea to demand one as a buyer, in case you somehow get accused of having an illegal copy.
Of course receipts suggest a paper trail with proper signatures, which means paper copies, in duplicate. It's going to be tough to prove that an old email message constitutes a legal receipt, since it's easily forged. So much for 100% digital.
Heck even radio and TV are free (or all you can eat for a fee)
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