[oWoD/Torg] How much did old Mage borrow from Torg?

[Future Villain Band]

Originally Posted by riprock

I'm open to the possibility that this whole notion is trivial and that Mage doesn't borrow from Torg substantially, but I'd love to see a smoking gun memo from Wieck or Brucatto or somebody that says, "Gee, we should have acknowledged our debt to Torg."

But, there is no debt to TORG. I'd like to see a smoking gun memo from George Lucas, saying, "Y'know, Eric Brennan really does deserve my money, because it's all his idea!", just to get some cash, but both would involve either a Wish Machine or rohypnol and a forged document.

For that matter, I'd love to get the inside story of the various sources that went into Mage, especially the way White Wolf trawled Usenet, getting a feel for neopagan opinions. As I recall Werewolf was pegged as a game for the neopagan market segment, and Mage was an attempt to get a broader New Age market.

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" would be the best place to start. I mean, the bibliography in that game fits.

--Eric

[apieros]

How is Torg Different from Mage?

Mage is about reality, but the reality of the world we know. In this world, reality is essentially infinitely mutable. The belief of sentient minds changes reality, changes what is possible.

Everything is Magic- technology, weird science, religion, martial arts, shamanistic beliefs, etc. Each mage sees reality and magic through a different paradigm- Zen asceticism, neopaganism, technology, weird technology, religious faith. If they can convince enough people to follow their poaradigm, reality changes.

Torg is in many ways the opposite of Mage. Spiritual miracles are different from magical spells. Reality is not fluid, nor determined by communal beliefs. Instead, reality molds the beliefs and morals of those who live in a cosm.

Torg is about genres, and adventuring between genres. It is about a tribal shapeshifter, a bitter cyberpunk decker, and a masked pulp hero hunting vampires in an ancient castle. Torg is a war for Earth's reality.

Mage is a war to dominate the fluid reality, a war of philosophies and paradigms. It's a college bull session, amped up, on speed, but the outcome of the debate determines the reality of the whole world.

Torg is a game of genres and crossing genres. It's about characters from different realities adventuring to protect Earth.

Torg is built around Hollywood blockbusters: fast-paced dramatic car chases, big explosions, and massive gunfights. In the end, it's about "Saving the World!"

I am not taking a position on the intellectual heritage of Mage, I just wanted to give some more details to explain the chorus of "no's."

[riprock]

Originally Posted by apieros

Okay, let me actually give details instead of the blank "no."

...

These cosms have different realities than Earth- ...

However, PC's are cinematic heroes that can carry their reality with them. They can use their own tools in alien realities and can even use the tools that alien realities support.

Doing so is chancy, however, and contradicts reality. Reality can respond by disconnecting the character from their cosm, forcing them to abide by the rules of the alien cosm.
...

When different realities are forced to coexist like this, Reality Storms erupt. ...
Each cosm has a great store of powerful energy, called Possibility Energy.

...Certain artifacts, Darkness Devices, can drain Possibility Energy from cosms. Doing so destroys that world, and kills everyone living there. ...

Thank you very much. Your post was concise, economical, and clear.

[The Watcher]

Hmmm, anyone else here have the inspiration on reading this thread of a TORG campaign where the invading realms are all based on the paradigms of the various Traditions and the Technocracy?

[Amado G]

Originally Posted by Patrick O'Duffy

...is it just me, or are tin foil hats the hot new fashion accessory at RPG.net this week?

There's some REALLY good mota floating around, I hear.

[Lord Kelvin]

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Hmmm, anyone else here have the inspiration on reading this thread of a TORG campaign where the invading realms are all based on the paradigms of the various Traditions and the Technocracy?

Or, turn it around. The Torg cosms invade the old World of Darkness; the mages all know that these are each worlds which have reached different consensual realities. Storm Knights are Awakened, reality storms are the common Paradox reaction.

The Delphi Council is run by the Technocracy, who are divided on whether the appropriate reaction is to try and cover everything up or to modify the consensus to accept that other worlds have different rules.

The Five Metal Dragons are actually the Technocracy-equivalent from Marketplace, and they infiltrated ahead of everyone else.

The Virtual Adepts and Celestial Chorus ally to take down the Cyberpapacy, viewing it as a perversion of everything they hold dear.

The Dreamspeakers and the Changing Breeds prosper in the Living Land.

The Gaunt Man hands Caine's ass to him on a silver platter.

The Hermetics move to Aysle en masse; once the Corrupt ones get sorted out, they begin expanding the realm aggressively.

Every new Marauder sighting sets off a panic, as people fear some new reality is about to show up.

The Nephandi work overtime to bring Tharkoldu in.

Dr. Mobius recruits half the Sons of Ether, the other half swear to take him down. A good time is had by all.