Sigh. Sometimes I think my players are hopeless

[The Grey Elf]

I wonder why I bother half the time.

I spend a great deal of time and even money on my games, putting together props, visual aids, and resources to help everyone have a good time.

If I'm running a new game with which the players are unfamiliar I will put together resources to help them get a feel for the game and setting. Case in point: I'm gearing up to run an OD&D Hyborian Age game right now. I have put together rules booklets for the players as well as e-mailed them copies of everything they'd need (including an extensive but brief booklet I put together on Hyborian Age gaming--character classes allowed, races of the Hyborian Age, etc.) I sent them an e-mail with a list of where you can (legally) find all of Robert E. Howard's stories online (even in PDF format).

I recently sent an e-mail out to prepare for char gen this weekend. In it, I asked people to let me know what types of characters they wanted to play so I could prepare the proper resources for them.

Several of them got back to me and said, "What are the choices again? I haven't bothered to look at any of the stuff you sent." Others didn't even respond at all.

In the past I have even paid to have house rule documents professionally made, to look just like old-school adventure modules (with artwork and everything). I had one player not even bother to bring the house rules to the table and just demand to be told what he needed to know when he needed to know it.

I dunno. I'm just getting this frustration off my chest. I really don't know why I bother putting the effort in that I do, sometimes.

[CéPé]

I feel your pain bro.

About half of my players are like this, and I must say sometimes I too wonder why I even bother to put all this time and money into this. But you know what? I know WHY I do it: cause it's fun for ME.

I like creating props, writing house rules docs or campaing primers. I love it, for me. If the players don't bother to appreciate them... well too bad for them, they're missing the show!

[Carpe DM]

Originally Posted by The Grey Elf

I wonder why I bother half the time.

I spend a great deal of time and even money on my games, putting together props, visual aids, and resources to help everyone have a good time.

If I'm running a new game with which the players are unfamiliar I will put together resources to help them get a feel for the game and setting. Case in point: I'm gearing up to run an OD&D Hyborian Age game right now. I have put together rules booklets for the players as well as e-mailed them copies of everything they'd need (including an extensive but brief booklet I put together on Hyborian Age gaming--character classes allowed, races of the Hyborian Age, etc.) I sent them an e-mail with a list of where you can (legally) find all of Robert E. Howard's stories online (even in PDF format).

I recently sent an e-mail out to prepare for char gen this weekend. In it, I asked people to let me know what types of characters they wanted to play so I could prepare the proper resources for them.

Several of them got back to me and said, "What are the choices again? I haven't bothered to look at any of the stuff you sent." Others didn't even respond at all.

In the past I have even paid to have house rule documents professionally made, to look just like old-school adventure modules (with artwork and everything). I had one player not even bother to bring the house rules to the table and just demand to be told what he needed to know when he needed to know it.

I dunno. I'm just getting this frustration off my chest. I really don't know why I bother putting the effort in that I do, sometimes.

... OK, if someone put all that effort (and money - Jesus, you spent money on this!) I, personally, would certainly appreciate it. Hell, that sort of effort may even convince me to play OD&D!

Sorry, man!

[Loke]

Originally Posted by The Grey Elf

I wonder why I bother half the time.

I spend a great deal of time and even money on my games, putting together props, visual aids, and resources to help everyone have a good time.

If I'm running a new game with which the players are unfamiliar I will put together resources to help them get a feel for the game and setting. Case in point: I'm gearing up to run an OD&D Hyborian Age game right now. I have put together rules booklets for the players as well as e-mailed them copies of everything they'd need (including an extensive but brief booklet I put together on Hyborian Age gaming--character classes allowed, races of the Hyborian Age, etc.) I sent them an e-mail with a list of where you can (legally) find all of Robert E. Howard's stories online (even in PDF format).

I recently sent an e-mail out to prepare for char gen this weekend. In it, I asked people to let me know what types of characters they wanted to play so I could prepare the proper resources for them.

Several of them got back to me and said, "What are the choices again? I haven't bothered to look at any of the stuff you sent." Others didn't even respond at all.

In the past I have even paid to have house rule documents professionally made, to look just like old-school adventure modules (with artwork and everything). I had one player not even bother to bring the house rules to the table and just demand to be told what he needed to know when he needed to know it.

I dunno. I'm just getting this frustration off my chest. I really don't know why I bother putting the effort in that I do, sometimes.

Need a player? Good DMs that put in the effort are rarer than gold in my back garden.

[Emprint]

It sounds to me like your players' interests might diverge from yours. It could be the setting and system, or it could be that they just don't enjoy prep ahead of the game the way you do.

I know from experience that it's a bitch when players don't get into the bells and whistles. I did something fairly extensive for a game a few years ago that not one player looked at twice, and it stung. Sorry you have to deal with it.

[Kiero]

You've got several choices, all of which I think flow from having a sit-down with them all to air your greivances.

1) Wrap it all up and call it quits.
2) Work to encourage them to up their effort levels to match your own.
3) Drop your effort levels to match theirs.
4) Find some compromise in the middle.
5) Do nothing and carry on being frustrated.
6) Let someone else take over GMing for a bit.
7) Call in the Underpants Gnomes.

[The Grey Elf]

Originally Posted by Loke

Need a player? Good DMs that put in the effort are rarer than gold in my back garden.

Once upon a time. At the moment all three of the groups I'm in are overfull. Are you from Pittsburgh?

[jontheman]

I know what you mean - years ago I was talked into running the Star Trek 'Prime Directive' RPG from Task Force Games, just for something different from our regular Star Wars D6 game. I went out and bought the rulebook and the GM material, read up on my Trek (I wasn't a huge follower back then), designed the game, even designed a small and simple starship combat system so that we could do ship-to-ship stuff and set up the game.

We played it twice, and in both sessions the players from the very beginning, before we had even started the game proper, didn't express any interest whatsoever - they just wanted to get back into a Star Wars game. These buggers were the ones who wanted to run it in the first place!

Still, I used the Prime Directive book to do a D6 conversion of the rules - it was simple to do and I still have the conversion document - and later I got some great post-Dominion Wars Trek games out of it. Not many, but enough.

As players all they see are the end results, the three-four hours the group spends at the gaming table. I think most of them, especially the ones who had never GM'd, never realised the work, time and even money that's put into the game before anyone even sits down at the table. It can be frustrating, especially when they don't share the same passion as you for the game. After all, GMs have a lot more invested in the evening's play.

[RedFox]

Sounds like casual gamer interest. Pretty usual. I've run into it a lot myself. Some people just aren't super duper enthusiastic about gaming. Oh they'll enjoy the weekly session or whatever, but getting them to look at stuff in the free-time is like homework to them. If you can't stoke the fires of passion in them, there's not much else you can do about it. You'll be putting in 90% of the effort into the game and they'll be managing about 10%. Good luck avoiding burnout.

Kinda sucks to hear that you're experiencing it. You seem to have a real passion for the game. It comes through in the effort you spend on a lot of your gaming. I remember your old website with Unisystem stuff being pretty nifty.

I wish you all the best.

[Sylvre Phire]

Originally Posted by The Grey Elf

I wonder why I bother half the time.

I spend a great deal of time and even money on my games, putting together props, visual aids, and resources to help everyone have a good time.

If I'm running a new game with which the players are unfamiliar I will put together resources to help them get a feel for the game and setting. Case in point: I'm gearing up to run an OD&D Hyborian Age game right now. I have put together rules booklets for the players as well as e-mailed them copies of everything they'd need (including an extensive but brief booklet I put together on Hyborian Age gaming--character classes allowed, races of the Hyborian Age, etc.) I sent them an e-mail with a list of where you can (legally) find all of Robert E. Howard's stories online (even in PDF format).

I recently sent an e-mail out to prepare for char gen this weekend. In it, I asked people to let me know what types of characters they wanted to play so I could prepare the proper resources for them.

Several of them got back to me and said, "What are the choices again? I haven't bothered to look at any of the stuff you sent." Others didn't even respond at all.

In the past I have even paid to have house rule documents professionally made, to look just like old-school adventure modules (with artwork and everything). I had one player not even bother to bring the house rules to the table and just demand to be told what he needed to know when he needed to know it.

I dunno. I'm just getting this frustration off my chest. I really don't know why I bother putting the effort in that I do, sometimes.

It sounds as though your players don't know how much time and effort you put into making your games entertaining and interesting. You should really tell them (politely, but firmly) that you are doing a lot of work and are getting back little to show for it from them. At best, they'll acknowledge your work and get with the program. At worst, they'll continue their selfish (as evidenced by the demanding player above) and self-destructive course and you'll be given more than enough reason to leave the group behind.

I know your pain quite well. I've had this problem with convention games, of all things. I've had GMs come to my table to try to steal away the few players I've had and I've also been left sitting for half an hour for players who never materialized, either because they signed up and "forgot" or because no one appeared interested.

Originally Posted by Kiero

You've got several choices, all of which I think flow from having a sit-down with them all to air your greivances.

1) Wrap it all up and call it quits.
2) Work to encourage them to up their effort levels to match your own.
3) Drop your effort levels to match theirs.
4) Find some compromise in the middle.
5) Do nothing and carry on being frustrated.
6) Let someone else take over GMing for a bit.
7) Call in the Underpants Gnomes.

I'd recommend looking at this as a process with your options more as steps. It would go something like this:

1) Work to encourage them to ramp up their effort levels to match your's.
2) If step 1 fails, find a compromise in the middle.
3) If step 2 fails, drop your effort levels to match their own.
4) Should step 3 fail, wrap it up, call it quits, and find a new group. Be sure to make sure the old group knows of their loss.
5) Once you've left the old group, call in the Underpants Gnomes.
6) Profit!

Originally Posted by jontheman

As players all they see are the end results, the three-four hours the group spends at the gaming table. I think most of them, especially the ones who had never GM'd, never realised the work, time and even money that's put into the game before anyone even sits down at the table. It can be frustrating, especially when they don't share the same passion as you for the game. After all, GMs have a lot more invested in the evening's play.

Here, here! Players who rarely or never GM don't know the amount of work we put into our games, and unfortunately a good number of them don't appreciate the effort. The last group I was in had a couple such players and they poisoned the entire group. I'm glad I left. As they say on RPGNet, "No gaming is better than bad gaming."

Pax et bonum,