Post originally by Whymme at 2003-06-02 03:11:23
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The review was labeled a playtest review, but all I've seen is a summary of the book. So how did your players like it? Did they have trouble with certain points in character generation? How did they cope with the steep learning curve in combat that you mention? What typical things did you observe while playing the game, things that other prospective buyers should know?
And another thing: in the summary you say something like: "But, the game had a few gaps that I found incredibly irritating as well. you saw them above."
Well, not if I just glanced over the review and went straight to the summary. Summaries are there for people who don't want to read the whole text; if you assume that people do read the whole text, the summary is superfluous. So next time you write a review, please make the summary a summary.
Post originally by Scott at 2003-06-02 07:18:39
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I have and like TRoS, but I have more of a problem with the missile system than you. In particular, when firing a longbow, they generally used what is known as instinctive or reflexive shooting. Which means that you train yourself not to draw and carefully aim, but to focus on your target, draw, and release. I am learning how to do this currently, and it does work.
So, as a "fix", I use the system as stated, but raised the refresh rate and increased the range increments of the weapons.
Post originally by Wombat at 2003-06-02 08:26:02
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Longbows are tricky items.
Yes, they can be "instinctively fired", but only after years and years of training. One reason that the crossbow was far more popular than the longbow during the Middle Ages and the Rensaissance was that it was so much quicker and easier to train someone to fire a crossbow; you had to be more or less "born to the bow" in the case of longbows, working with progressively larger and larger bows as you grew older.
Ultimately this is what shot down Benjamin Franklin's suggestion that the Continental Army field a regiment of longbowmen, despite the fact that longbows had a longer range, a more accurate range, and a higher rate of fire than muskets of the period -- only a few folks really knew how to use them.
After playing around quite a bit with the combat system, I find that TRoS is very accurate in portraying late Medieval/early Renaissance sword work, particularly fencing weapons, but gets less so with other weapons. I would love to use this combat system as the basis of a "realistic" musketeer game (well, at least for the duels -- adding in firearms would be a terrifying procedure), but I'm not sure it would be all that useful for, say, the 11th or 12th centuries.
Post originally by larsdangly at 2003-06-02 13:04:00
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Thanks for the thorough review. This is an odd game; its combat rules make it a must-buy for anyone really interested in gaming systems, but it is rather spotty otherwise. I found the magic system to be overly busy and the suggested world setting just blah. Nevertheless, I gravitate toward games with meaty combat systems and this one blows all others out the door. My suggestion is to use the combat system as a patch for some other game. This is surprisingly easy to do because most recently-written game systems (and some oldies as well) share similar types and ranges of stats. The best one I thought of was Deciphers Lord of the Rings roleplaying game, which has a wonderful setting, good magic system, many stats resembling those in TROS, but one of the most botched combat systems in recent memory. I have play-tested LOTR using TROS combat (using several obvious translations of LOTR stats into dice pools, etc.) and it works like a charm. Highly recommended!
Post originally by Ralph Mazza at 2003-06-02 18:54:55
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I believe I would not be that far off in suggesting that was part of Jakes intent for the game. I may be misremembering but I believe that his initial intention was not to include any setting at all and treat the whole game as a system to port in whole or part to other settings.
I myself am contemplating converting TROS combat to a d6 dice pool and making suitable modifications to allow it to be used as the combat system for Burning Wheel. I'm also thinking the SA rules from TROS would be an amazing addition to BWs Personality, Behaviors, and Instincts rules.
I won't really try it until I have a chance to play BW as written and get a feel for the current combat system, which I don't really "get" just from reading it.
Post originally by jimbo at 2003-06-02 21:04:56
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How would it fare as the combat system in a White Wolf game, do you think? Would it be a fairly straight forward port, or would it require a lot of tweaking? (At some point in the next month or so I've decided to pick up a copy of Riddle of Steel myself since it seems quite intriguing, but in the meantime I'd be interested to hear other peoples thoughts.)
Post originally by Wombat at 2003-06-02 21:59:30
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The one thing to remember about combat in TRoS is that it is vicious, unforgiving, and quick. If you make a mistake, you die or are permanently maimed. As such, it does not provide any form of heroic combat -- this is natsy, brutish and short. There are no "Do Over's".
As such, using the combat system is fantastic IF (let me say that again) IF you want very brutal, final combat. If you are a "Go In With Guns Blazing" sort or want any form of "heroic" combat, this game is entirely unsuitable.
If, on the other hand, you want something tense, stomach-churning, fast, and final, it is a fantastic system. Just remember -- to get the most out of this system, you have to accept a lot of death and dismemberment, and not just amongst the mooks. Characters are put hors de combat very quickly and readily and healing is, at best, slow & painful.
Oh, it also is best for one-on-one combat; it does rather poorly with groups. Duelling -- fantastic! Mass combat -- disaster waiting to happen.
That's why it is best for musketeer-like games. For that, it is one of the most amazing games on the market.
Post originally by Noon at 2003-06-02 22:37:31
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Although this review is quite possitive (despite it mentioning its missgivings right at the start), it really decides all issues great and small are of equal import.
For example, if combat is highly detailed, then encumberance rules must be highly detailed as well.
Isn't this asking for design symetry simply for the sake of symetry?
Isn't it possible for gaming books to use too many rules for one particular issue? I'd say TROS avoids that for encumberance. And I'd say encumberance is less important and deserves little work...why? Because accurate encumberance values rarely save the princes/win the battle, but other rules, like those for combat, do.
As for the barbarian speaking in horrible english to the wizard, an Arnie reference had to be in there somewhere, didn't it? Gadzooks! And just like serious movies have some comic relief hidden in them, it was a nice and brief change of pace (There's also a jimminy Cricket reference tucked away elsewhere).
As for the generic damage table and 'ye olde fireball', its actually mentioned that it isn't supposed to be a 'wizard does fireball' system. It says its not possible to do (directly. Indirectly is different) and it isn't. While the other damage tables like piercing, bludgeoning & cutting can all be applicable to whatever direct attack magic the user wants to blast.
As for herbalist and trap building rules, I'd say, just let go. Rules help two things in particular, balance and consistance. Balance isn't a primary issue in TROS (as compared to D&D, for example). And consistancy is often better of in the hands of GM and players, as rules can get stale.
Post originally by Bankuei at 2003-06-02 22:53:12
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"As such, using the combat system is fantastic IF (let me say that again) IF you want very brutal, final combat. If you are a "Go In With Guns Blazing" sort or want any form of "heroic" combat, this game is entirely unsuitable. "
I'd have to say that is completely and utterly based on your viewpoint of heroic. I've found the terrible threat of combat to make it all the more heroic and desperate. If you mean to say, "less deadly combat" I would concur, TROS is not a "less deadly" game. Other than that, I've found it possible to bum rush opponents, just that you won't be talking on opponents 5 to 1 without some serious tactical considerations.
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