A very good hidden information investigation game that allows for lots of strategy and aso has a strong genre background. Highly recommended if that all sounds like your type of thing.
Post originally by Frank Branham at 2003-05-28 09:51:59
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I've played Murder/Mystery in the Abbey a lot over the years, and question formats have never really been an issue.
It seems that there are 5 states that a suspect can be in...Unknown, in hand, seen, eliminated, and possibly eliminated. All of our questions ever have concerned the first 4 cases.
The only issue we've ever had is with folks asking questions that can map directly to names. (e.g. "What are all of the characteristics of the leftmost card in your hand?" )
Curiously, we never hit upon the issue of one answer being required. That would need to be there...imagine:
"How many Dominican Brothers do you have, and how many Dominican Fathers have you seen?"
Technically legal-though in our group, there would have been cries of derision and questioning the parentage of the asker. Followed by a quick vow of silence and a nasty glare.
Post originally by Shannon Appelcline at 2003-05-28 11:14:55
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Frank,
Thanks for the responses & good examples of more troublesome questions. I think your one about naming all the characteristics of a card could likewise be avoided by requiring just one answer, because that's technically 5 or so.
I agree about the 5 suspect states. The question is, if someone asks who you've eliminated, are your technically required to also be honest about possibly eliminated suspects? If different people answer that question differently, there's an innate bias in the game against the players who are most honest (are at least most forthcoming).
Post originally by Frank Branham at 2003-05-28 12:05:38
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The cases where "possibly eliminated" has come up, the answerer asked the questioner to clarify positively or possibly eliminated.
And the rest of us have somehow always assumed that "possibly eliminated" was fairly useless information. And that bit of information has never been requested.
What DOES make an important distinction in our games, however, is whether you have seen the card versus eliminated by deduction.
Which perhaps is the distinction you are describing.
Cards that you have seen are of course ones that you have seriously actually seen.
Cards that you have eliminated are ones that you have figured out by clear deductive logic. The problem with these is that the information might still be bogus if you messed up in your deduction.
Cards that you have possibly eliminated are almost a suspicion that the card is in the game....
Example: If a player asks: "How many hooded Franciscan brothers do you have?" to another player, and receives "1" as the answer. You can make a fairly wild guess that the asker has the other hooded Franciscan brother. Or he might be asking a pointless question to throw everyone off track.
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The other point you made in the review is the Cubula. They are really too far away, and we almost never visit them either. A few of the event cards will send players to the Cubula, and occasionally someone will enter one if they are in the main hallway and it is close to Mass.
When looking at the game there are quite a few things that could have been streamlined, but the baroqueness of the rules and all of the little bits of theming add up until it is just dripping with theme. I've always thought that Mystery in the Abbey was one of the best applications of mechanics to a theme around.
One of the other complaints I had at first with the game which you didn't comment on in your review is the Secret Library. The player with the fewest cards in hand may wander in once per game. Some of the cards are REALLY powerful. I *THINK* that the balance is about correct, as having a hand full of cards makes it possible to sit on one or two cards, and never pass them until much later in the game.
And if you doggedly pursued hanging onto two cards, you would be forced to visit Cubulas to maintain your hand size.
Post originally by Shannon Appelcline at 2003-05-28 12:47:32
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All interesting points about questions. When I mark suspects, I usually have four marks: I've seen the suspect card or else been told it was in their hand (ie, direct information); someone else has told me they've seen the suspect card, but they didn't have it in their hand at the time (ie, second-hand information); I feel that someone else's question fairly definitively suggests that they've eliminated the suspect; or I feel that someone else's quesiton somewhat suggests that they've eliminated the suspect. I'm not sure if the last category actually is useful.
Good to hear that the Cubula experience wasn't just mine alone. I felt a bit leery about including that in the review because I wasn't certain if it was a general problem in <6 player games or not.
I'd actually meant to note the Secret Library as a great balancing mechanism. Players are really at a disadvantage if they have less cards, and the library really helps them out.
And I agree the theme is very solid and a definite virtue of the game.
Post originally by Quigg at 2003-06-02 12:45:48
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I'm curious about the balance of strategic and luck/chaos elements in the game. The group I often play with leans toward the strategic.
The review mentions "more strategic" options by removing some of the random elements. Does the game design hold up in terms of "meatiness" and "fun" under these conditions? In other words, is it strategic enough to challenge strategic-minded players?
If not, following your lead of suggesting small improvements, I'll throw the added complexity of having one player (randomly and secretly determined before the game) be required to always lie in response to questions he is asked. If they are simple yes/no questions, his lie will be obvious, but more complex questions may give the liar more choices in his answer.
To make things interesting, how about...
+2 points to accuse the liar correctly
-1 point to incorrectly accuse the liar
Thanks for a well-written review. I think I'll have to try this one myself to really answer my questions - but I am interested in your take.
Linear Mode
