<I>Not perfect, but close - better than the first edition. A must-read for would-be Hermetics, and those who are undecided on the value of the Order.</I>
Post originally by JdRavnos at 2003-07-07 10:30:33
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While I haven't read the the new tradbook, is it possible that their history was purposely misrepresented to make their past sound a bit better then it really is? Narrator bias is common in White-Wolf books, and especially considering how big of a mistake that is (especially since Phil Brucato apparently worked on the tradbook and was developer of M:tSC), I have a feeling it wasn't lack of research as much the Solificati retelling their history to make them sound like they never did anything wrong.
Post originally by Shoggoth at 2003-07-07 10:51:44
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Thank you for that excellent review! I do have one question, though; how much of the content in the new content (i.e. not covered in the 2nd Edition OoH book) is related to advancing the metaplot, and how much is actually useful outside of that context?
I've been playing Mage for a long time, and I've actually gone to the trouble of having a complete collection of Mage books. I've become a little bit disillusioned by the new post-Reckoning story line, and to be honest, The Infinite Tapestry really upset me, to the point where I'm considering not buying any more books. Should I decide to abandon the metaplot, how much will the new OoH book help me?
Post originally by ~BA at 2003-07-07 17:45:21
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I don't know if you've read CB:Tremere Revised, but one of the best things about it was that it turned an otherwise difficult to play Clan into on that you could.
I haven't seen the first TB:OoH, but it's always struck me that Mage has made the Hermetics difficult to play in the same way that the Tremere were (ie, bureaucratic, hierarchical, labyrinthine, cut-throat, etc).
Has this problem been solved? Have they solved the problem of a stiffling hierarchy that precludes any ability to play a Hermetic?
Post originally by ~BA at 2003-07-07 17:48:36
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It's fairly clear that the dissolution of House Thig and the continued existance of House Tytalus are the parts of the Metaplot that are most significant.
That said, I haven't read the book (will buy it on Thursday).
Post originally by Shoggoth at 2003-07-08 05:58:41
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I haven't read CB: Tremere Revised, but I have read the original tradbook for the OoH, and it did a fairly good job of providing roles for Hermetic characters beyond the stereotypical master/apprentice formula. The old book included a fairly exhaustive look at the structure of the tradition, and gave enough roleplaying and paradigm ideas for anyone to create a Hermetic with more diversity than a bureaucratic toady. As far as the new book, I don't know (yet!), but the revised Tradition books have been really good so far about taking fresh looks at the traditions.
Post originally by Chuck at 2003-07-09 19:43:58
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With the whole Avatar Storm concept cutting Masters off from Earth (as well as the destruction of Doissetep), the Hermetic hierarchy is more or less fragmented. A lot of the politicking and trading of favors is still present, but now it's more along the lines of what you'd expect in Vampire - deals made between near-equals, with reputation only carrying you so far. It does seem as if WW tried to make the Order more accessible to the average gamer.
As for the Tremere book, it's definitely a similar flavor - after all, the Tremere came from the Order, and has a lot of the same hang-ups and quirks. That being said, I think the comparison was apt - the first Tremere Clanbook tried to get the mood and feel of the Tremere across, but it took the Revised version to really show you how to PLAY them. That's sort of the feel you get with the Hermes Tradbooks as well.
Post originally by Chuck at 2003-07-09 19:49:40
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UGH. Mage metaplot. ~smirk~
Yeah, the fall of House Thig and Janissary, as well as the weakening of House Tytalus, are really the only aspects of metaplot in there... while it implies the "rebirth" of the Order stems from the crises of the past year or two, you could just as easily come up with your own explanation for why new vitality has crept into the stagnant Order. No joke, I'd say maybe three or four pages total in there deal with metaplot issues - WW got most of the Hermetic metaplot out of their systems with Blood Treachery.
As for Infinite Tapestry... yeah. ~shakes head~ A complete 180 on prior Umbral stuff... I more or less decided to loot it for ideas, and just incorporate them into the framework of the old Umbra concept.
Post originally by Chuck at 2003-07-09 19:55:14
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Yeah, I'd thought of that - it was the main reason it was only a nit-picking quirk rather than a full-blow annoyance. ~smirk~
That being said, though, I get the impression that White Wolf started using the "narrator-bias" concept back in the early days, when every new book would contradict something written in an earlier book... rather than admitting someone misunderstood, or missed an important detail along the way, it was simply explained away as just another misunderstanding in the World of Darkness (I'm thinking The Chaos Factor [Mage Book 8] was one of the worst offenders, here).
Of course, who says accidents can't work out for the best? That "implied bias" DOES add an extra layer of paranoia to things (whose story IS right?), even if it DOES make it impossible for us to ever get a "canon" answer to historical questions.
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