RE: Not the only or First TSR dungeon with a Drago
Post originally by Darrin O'Connor at 2003-08-02 11:13:21
Converted from Phorums BB System
Just a little joke. There has to be a couple more dungeon+dragon adventures (isn't there one in the Basic D&D boxed game?) but really they're pretty rare.
RE: Not the only or First TSR dungeon with a Drago
Post originally by Joe Grendel at 2003-08-02 13:17:28
Converted from Phorums BB System
G2 and G3 have dragons, I know. (The dragon in G3 was sort of excessive in regards to its loot, I remember even back then.) There's one in D1, just sitting off to the side of the main cavern, waiting to get whacked, just like the lich in another corner.
S4 has one, I THINK. That module was such a mess that I've blocked most of it out of my memory.
X2 had one.
I'm always sorry that they never put out "The Mighty Argos" for the 2E Mystara setting, but even if Mystara 2E had sold gangbusters, it may have been felt it was too similiar to "Dragon Mountain" (a green dragon rules the humanoids of a large forest in the default setting).
Post originally by Lord Ogre at 2003-08-02 23:39:29
Converted from Phorums BB System
"Personally I found Dragon Mountain an excellent Gamemastering aide, helping me to highlight D&D's strengths (fun, low-attention span, powergaming) and downplay its weaknesses (lack of seriousness, powergaming, limited roleplaying scope)."
I have said this many times, but I always feel I have to chime in in defense of D&D 3E. We've had VERY serious roleplaying situations and VERY lengthy and dramatic combat. In fact, my experience directly contradicts what you say the weaknesses and strenghts of D20 are. To me, d20 is about options, catering to ideas, fantasy archetypes, tactical battle (to varying degrees) and whatever sort of stories and roleplaying you want (again, to varying degrees). Lack of seriousness, low-attention span, limited roleplaying, powergaming, even fun all stem from players, not the system.
Post originally by Creel at 2003-08-03 07:54:06
Converted from Phorums BB System
"Lack of seriousness, low-attention span, limited roleplaying, powergaming, even fun all stem from players, not the system."
Hogwash. My players are all of the above with d20 because the design of the system encourages that style of play.
The same group plays completely different when the system is Savage Worlds or even D6. The systems themselves have a strong impact on how players go about doing things.
Some players will roleplay no matter what and some will powergame no matter what, but the vast majority of players fall somewhere in the middle. For those in the middle, the system *does* encourage a certain style of play.
In my experience, the style encouraged by d20 is typified by lack of seriousness, low-attention span, limited roleplaying and powergaming.
Post originally by Darrin O'Connor at 2003-08-03 13:57:08
Converted from Phorums BB System
Right. Which was the point of the review. I started out running Dragon Mountain just as a kind of fun bit of Hack & Slash and it ended up being one of the better pure-creativity-on-the-spot campaigns I've participated in.
I didn't like d20 coming into Dragon Mountain because of those inherent system weaknesses but overall enjoyed the flexibility it offered me. Kobolds without class levels = handicapped mook encounter. Kobolds with class levels = challenging encounter with multi-dimensional adversaries.
Anyway I'm not knocking d20. I liked what it did for me.
Post originally by SteelCaress at 2003-08-03 21:36:50
Converted from Phorums BB System
It is kind of sad, and ordinarily I'd disagree, but my recent experiences running a d20 campaign make me think that Creel and O'Connor are correct.
I run with a world that I developed for a Lord of the Rings campaign. It was sort of the "East" that Tolkien mentions, but never elaborates on. So I did. I was told it was very realistic, the descriptions vivid, and that it was incredible fun.
When I moved to a different city, I switched it to d20, since that was what they were familiar with. Their experience with d20 GM's were pathetic, but at least 2 of them had gamed with me before, so we all decidedto give it a whirl.
Most of the characters are evil, or at least mercenary. They don't care one way or the other whether a NPC is in trouble or not. Bonuses of an extra +1 etc are very important to them. It sort of turns into a "grab the gold, smash the monster" fest, when the world itself doesn't support that very well. Bear in mind these are the same people who are very thoughtful and of higher quality gamer material when it comes to WarHammer, DC Universe, and Call of Cthulhu.
I'll be the first to admit that d20 needs tweaking in order to be run correctly. D20 does one thing really well in it's pure form -- simulate D&D. That's it. Period. Maybe it's time to retire this grandfather game and go play something that still has hair and teeth.
RE: Not the only or First TSR dungeon with a Drago
Post originally by morgue at 2003-08-04 02:37:34
Converted from Phorums BB System
"I'm always sorry that they never put out "The Mighty Argos" for the 2E Mystara setting, but even if Mystara 2E had sold gangbusters, it may have been felt it was too similiar to "Dragon Mountain" (a green dragon rules the humanoids of a large forest in the default setting)."
Henh? Was such a product ever actually mooted? I know there were Mystara releases in the pipeline, I don't know what they were, but I never even heard a whisper of this...
Linear Mode
