Post originally by Creel at 2003-09-26 17:29:41
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The reviewer has made a fine effort and I applaud the attempt, but ultimately this review is a failure.
We play card games when the roleplaying games don't work out or we have some extra time at the end of a one shot. We've played a fair number of Cheapass Games ("Kill Dr Lucky" and "Give me the Brain" being favorites), Atlas Games "Lunch Money," and SJG's "Munchkin." Our favorite game of all though, is by far the classic "GANGLAND!"
But then we're enthusiastic about the concept, so we went to the trouble of learning the rules. The book *is* a little confusing and the rules are spread out, but if you make the effort it's worth it.
We made a small table that listed the main attack cards (bomb, massacre and drive by hit), what works against them and what doesn't. This all but eliminated rulebook references during play.
The reviewer made a number of mistakes, so I am not surprised that the playtesters only wanted to play once. The biggest was allowing only one action per turn. That completely changes the nature of the game. The book clearly says: "All active characters are limited to one action per turn." Note that it doesn't say "player." That means that each member of your gang may perform an action each turn. Normally a gang doesn't have enough cards or money to have each gang member perform an action, so the end result is that each player can perform as many actions as he can manage (ie has the cards and money for) each turn.
To allow only one action per turn is akin to disallowing combos in a fighting game.
In a typical turn I have thrown a shooter in jail, recruited a new gang member, set up a business, dropped several thousand business bucks into the business, used those business bucks to attempt to bribe an opposing gangleader, failing that I assasinated his body guard (which he attempted to save via bulletproof vest), and then hired some out of town goons to do a drive-by on the now exposed gang leader.
That's pretty busy, but not unusual. Once the players are familiar with the game, which doesn't take that long if you have gone to the effort to learn the rules first, the game flows quickly.
Why assasinate your own boss? To put a better one in his place, like Scarface, that's why. Simple strategy.
Does the randomness suck? Sometimes, but usually the way it works is that the player having all the luck is the #1 target on everyone's hit list. So if your card draws are poor, just do what you can and bide your time because things turn around in a hurry.
Frankly, we never noticed the bad draws much because when you don't limit yourself to one action per turn, you go through the deck much faster. Consequently, any bad luck you may have has more than enough chances to turn around.
The bottom line is that if you have any enthusiasm for the genre at all, then GANGLAND! has tremendous replay value. It has remained a favorite with my basement gaming group for years.
As far as the rules go, even if well written, they would be more extensive than most, but then so are the possibilities in this game.
Unfortunately I can't compare this with other gangster type card games, but I do know that this game is a gem. A rough gem in places, but a gem none the less.
Post originally by Shannon Appelcline at 2003-09-28 00:42:37
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I don't mind at all your objection to the outcome of my review. I'm glad it works for you, and that you found it more enjoyable after you managed to figure out the rules. I believe I suggested that might be the case. I believe I also suggested that our playing of the actions might have been wrong, but the rules were totally opaque on the issue. Even after reading about the additional line of rules you managed to dredge out of the rulebook, I still believe that to be the case.
Frankly, there are a lot of good games out there, with well-written rules, and so there's no reason for me to waste time on a game with a trainwreck of a rulebook, and that's going to be what I suggest to other people too. Given that your opinion of Gangland is so very different, I'd highly suggest you write your own review; that's the beauty of the open review system here at RPGnet.
And, while I didn't mind your objection at all, I found the title of your response highly offensive. "This Review is 'unplayable'?" And the "review was a failure"? Give me a break. Try to learn that people with different opinions than yours aren't innately wrong.
Post originally by Rich Bennett at 2004-02-12 17:25:02
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I agree that the Gangland! rule book has many problems and I helped design it. On reflection, it wasn't one of my finer efforts (design wise), but then again, you should have seen the first draft of the rules.
The problems that exist with the first (and only) edition of Gangland! became evident after we brought it to market. Even during the production process of the final rule book I had misgivings on how we were presenting the rules. If I ever get a chance to do it over, I would rewrite the rules and put them into a much more logical format - with an index! We did consider having an index, but at the time we thought the table of contents would be sufficient.
With any game featuring the level of complexity that Gangland! has, there are bound to be problems with the rule book in the first printing. We hoped to correct these in future editions. Unfortunately, our capital ran out before we could produce a second edition.
All in all, for a first effort, I think Gangland! was a success on many levels. The vast majority of reviews were very positive and we received a 4 Star rating from InQuest Magazine - which was no small feat at the time. Those guys were hard butts! Many of Magic's expansions received much lower scores.
It has been nearly a decade since I was involved with the production of Gangland! It was a labor of love for me and it I was really quite depressed when the venture failed. It makes me proud to see the artwork continue to receive positive reviews. The fact that people are still playing Gangland! and getting enjoyment from it makes it all worth it.
I have toyed around with the thought of starting up a Gangland! website where we could post revised "2nd Edition" rules and such. Perhaps I might speak with Bruce Quade and see if he's up to it.
Post originally by Agar at 2004-03-12 23:06:30
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I recently lost a bid on Ebay to get a copy of gangland, I loved this game! I even ran it at a small convention for a shop, I was in costume, no less! Mobster suit and and Aussie hat: "Six Downunder"
If anyone knows a way I can get, or even buy a copy, please let me know. I had some ideas for an expansion of my own, and I am very excited to hear about a website possibly being launched for the game. Anything I can do to help?
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