If magic plays a role of any significance in your game, you'll want this book. If psychic powers, enchanted items, and/or superscience do as well, you <u>need</u> this book. Regardless, you won't regret the purchase.
Post originally by Gerry Saracco at 2003-11-21 06:51:59
Converted from Phorums BB System
Dan Davenport wrote:
"The tricky part is that the contract renders the human completely unable to harm or even restrain the demon, while leaving the demon free reign over the human. This needs some rethinking in my opinion, since it seems to run directly counter to the traditional "bound demon" concept."
The Episode "Superstar" showcases the whole "unable to harm the pacted demon" to the fullest, which is why you rarely see such pacts on the series. The rules as is, going by that one example on the show, make perfect sense to me.
Post originally by Dan Davenport at 2003-11-21 07:00:10
Converted from Phorums BB System
Gerry Saracco wrote:
-------------------------------
<b>The Episode "Superstar" showcases the whole "unable to harm the pacted demon" to the fullest, which is why you rarely see such pacts on the series. The rules as is, going by that one example on the show, make perfect sense to me.</b>
-------------------------------
That's a good point. Still, I'm not sure that particular spell was the best example on which to base Buffyverse demon summoning in general.
In fact, IIRC, the demon in that case was actually a side-effect of the spell, not the source of the effect itself -- i.e., you cast a spell that makes you into an unstoppable hero, <u>except</u> for this <u>one</u> monster you can't hurt at all.
Post originally by Gerry Saracco at 2003-11-21 07:24:13
Converted from Phorums BB System
Dan Davenport wrote:
-------------------------------
That's a good point. Still, I'm not sure that particular spell was the best example on which to base Buffyverse demon summoning in general.
--
Dan Davenport
The whole point is that for every action, there is a reaction. You want a demon to do your dirty work? Sure, but be careful, or said demon is going to stab you in the back.
Besides, the way it is worded points out that Demons do this on purpose. It is possible that a person can negotiate better terms. Since the demon is trying to trick you into such an arrangement, you simply have to make the demon give you a better deal before signing any pacts.
A spellcaster with enough brains isn't going to sign a deal without knowing the details. As it points out, demons are under no obligation to accurately describe the details of the contract (they are demons, after all), so any spellcaster with intelligence will know before hand to *make* them spell out the terms in plain english before signing any deals. Otherwise, you get what you deserve.
It seems pretty easy (imho) to get around this; the guidelines presented are for the numbskulls who have no clue, and just sign anything without reading the fine print
Post originally by Dan Davenport at 2003-11-21 07:41:30
Converted from Phorums BB System
Gerry Saracco wrote:
-------------------------------
<b>whole point is that for every action, there is a reaction. You want a demon to do your dirty work? Sure, but be careful, or said demon is going to stab you in the back.</B>
-------------------------------
That part certainly makes sense.
-------------------------------
<b>Besides, the way it is worded points out that Demons do this on purpose. It is possible that a person can negotiate better terms. Since the demon is trying to trick you into such an arrangement, you simply have to make the demon give you a better deal before signing any pacts.
A spellcaster with enough brains isn't going to sign a deal without knowing the details. As it points out, demons are under no obligation to accurately describe the details of the contract (they are demons, after all), so any spellcaster with intelligence will know before hand to *make* them spell out the terms in plain english before signing any deals. Otherwise, you get what you deserve.
It seems pretty easy (imho) to get around this; the guidelines presented are for the numbskulls who have no clue, and just sign anything without reading the fine print</b>
-------------------------------
I'll have to re-read the relevant text when I get home. I certainly won't argue about whether your explanation is correct, and I definitely prefer that way of handling summonings. However, that really wasn't how the rules read to me. To me, it sounded as though the "demon gets free reign" part was just a metaphysical fact of life, and that the demon would attempt to twist the wording of his part of the bargain in <u>addition</u> to tormenting the caster into fulfilling <u>his</u> part.
Post originally by Gerry Saracco at 2003-11-21 08:17:42
Converted from Phorums BB System
Dan Davenport wrote:
-------------------------------
However, that really wasn't how the rules read to me. To me, it sounded as though the "demon gets free reign" part was just a metaphysical fact of life, and that the demon would attempt to twist the wording of his part of the bargain in addition to tormenting the caster into fulfilling his part.
-------------------------------
It's not a defacto rule; everything in the Magic Box are optional rules, so they shouldn't be taken at face value.
In fact, the first sentance of the second paragraph of that section says it all: "A magical pact governs *most* demon-human relations".
Ergo, it's not the only way to deal with demons. Which made me realize (now that I'm fully awake) that I overlooked in my earlier statements:
Demon pacting isn't necessarily demon summoning.
The hellhounds that Tucker had could have been summoned. The ape-like demons that attacked Buffy when she was working for Xander could be considered "summoned".
A pact is more for when you want something (like power, a wish, etc), which is a follow up step to summoning a being with the power to grant you that power.
For the everyday summoning of demons to do simple tasks, there doesn't seem to be anything preventing people from doing that if they know how to summon it properly (and likely bind it).
So, my earlier comments were off base, and thus were incorrect. Oh well, that's what happens when you post comments without being fully concious :-)
Linear Mode
