Post originally by Tim Moerke at 2003-11-24 14:27:36
Converted from Phorums BB System
Nice review!
About hit points, though...I thought the way it worked was that you only gained one hit point per level? If so, that would negate the problem of hit point acceleration. Of course, I could be confusing a house rule I read somewhere with the actual rule.
Post originally by Tim Moerke at 2003-11-24 14:35:04
Converted from Phorums BB System
In regards to feats, I don't think they're unnecessary. The combat-related ones in particular are essential if you're going to be doing much fighting, and most of the others will all come in handy too.
Also, when I playtested the game with a short session, I found that the massive damage rule made combat *quite* lethal with low-level PCs. Granted, it won't be so much as the characters get high in level, but I think that's okay, as I think higher-level characters are intended for more pulpier, action-oriented games, wheras you should keep the character levels low if you want a more grittier, deadlier game.
Post originally by Philomousos at 2003-11-24 17:50:43
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I'm going to be sticking with BRP because D20 is still chained to the fallacy that as you become a better tailor, you become harder to kill. That is a rules convention for 'tards. Next.
Post originally by SteelCaress at 2003-11-24 19:52:09
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Well, the d20 system is rather ill-suited to run a Cthulhu game, the main reason being that d20 is actually intended as a munchkin-builder by the designers, who have admitted as much.
D20 is also heavily geared towards combat, so if you want an investigative game, half the rulebook gets tossed out the window.
I always considered d20 for people who needed rules, and as these people got older they would realize rules just get in the way.
The chapters in the Gamemaster sections absolutely rock. It provides overviews of setting by decade. Want a 70's Cthulhu Disco game? You can do that. They also had Cthulhian classic "bits" to add to your scenarios to make them more authentic. It is quite possibly the best GMing advice I've ever seen, much less in a Cthulhu product. But a $40 asking price for that is just too steep.
Post originally by Eric Brennan at 2003-11-24 21:27:47
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<i>
Philomousos wrote:
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I'm going to be sticking with BRP because D20 is still chained to the fallacy that as you become a better tailor, you become harder to kill. That is a rules convention for 'tards. Next.</i>
Anybody interested in actually seeing yet <i>another</i> flamewar should just go back and look at the debates of old (two of the better ones are listed above,) where smarter people than the ones who will appear here attempted to tear the new system apart, and people less bored than me attempted to defend it.
FWIW, people whose opinion I actually trust to be open-minded when examining the d20 CoC game, and who've actually played it, tend to persuade me that d20's about as good as BRP overall. They both have different strengths, they both have different weaknesses. My advice for anyone interested is just to go with the system you like best.
Post originally by Philomousos at 2003-11-24 22:17:07
Converted from Phorums BB System
Yeah, a middle-aged 15th-level college professor can withstand more shots from a pistol than a 1st level US army soldier in his physical prime. That's exactly the way life works.
I'm glad you're here to let us know what the 'smart' people think about things, laddie.
Oh, and I like the "I'm too bored to make an intelligent point" dodge. I'll have to never use that, due to having balls.
Post originally by Wombat at 2003-11-24 22:40:24
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...neither system does a good job of modelling HP Lovecraft's stories.
Why?
Well, because the players know what they are in for, they are part of a semi-organized team, and because, unlike Lovecraft's protagonists, once they meet evidence of the Great Old Ones they are actually willing to go out and face them again.
Both versions make decent horror rpg, with slightly different emphasis as to what style you like, but don't say that one is better than the other for actually doing HPL accurately...
Post originally by Philomousos at 2003-11-24 23:11:56
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I wasn't talking about modeling Lovecraft *per se*, I was talking about modeling something that at least somewhat resembles the way things physically take place in the real world.
I would conclude from this that BRP makes for a better horror RPG experience, because when Professor Lardmore takes 3 .357 slugs in the chest and keeps on advancing, we're all transported out of the reality of the game world and reminded "Oh, yeah, I'm playing a dorky old D&D game" (not to mention the players make disparaging comments about my parentage because I ruined our collective drama by allowing something stupid to happen). If, on the other hand, the Professor falls to the ground clutching at his sucking chest wounds, his blood staining the earth as the madman stands above his stricken form cackling with malicious glee, the players can believe it and their participation in the story is not ground to a screeching halt by 'tarded holdover mechanics from a dinosauric miniatures game.
To repeat, people do not become harder to kill the more books they read or the better they learn how to weave baskets. Nor (according to the SAS personal defense handbook, among other sources, in case you have no conception of what reality is actually like) do you become harder to kill the older you get; quite the opposite is typically the case. I mean, when is my Arabic Philosophy prof from grad school harder to kill, when he is a chubby old fellow in a tweed coat, or when he's a strapping young soldier in 'Nam?
Look, for the game to be horrifying, it has to involve the players. My players, who are over the age of 12 and have IQs greater than that of Forest Gump, are not impressed by games that let you survive point-blank shotgun blasts, or keep rolling after somebody unloads their 10x21mm USP on your ass. You might as well have water flow uphill, and have people bounce when they fall off skyscrapers. It is so ridiculously removed from real life, you can't get involved in it. And if you can't get involved in it, there's not going to be any point in a horror game. Not even to mention the fact that when a knife-brandishing mental patient jumps at a high-level character, that character doesn't even care because he has virtually no chance of being killed by this 1st-level loonie. Wow - really scary, huh?
Post originally by Dylan at 2003-11-25 00:46:04
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Do you, Philomousos, have any data to back up your claims concerning what factors make some people harder to kill with a firearm than others? I mean, all this talk of US army soldiers and chubby professors is fine and well, but is this something you've come up with on your own, or something supported by hard fact?
I ask because I've never seen the 'stop chance' that gun mags and firearm publications use to compare wound statistics broken down in such terms, and would be most interested in a pointer to such a source if one exists.
Also, I'm curious: is the woman indicated in the news story referenced below tougher, or less tough (according to your model) than the soldier and the professor?
Finally: if a GM describes an 8 HP gunshot wound in Hollywood terms - all spurting blood and vaporised flesh, probably with a few vertebrae expelled through the exit wound for good measure - then who is at fault for breaking consensual reality: the system (for having Hit Points) or the GM? Semi-informed gun bunnies often fall into this trap because of their apparent need to pander to sublimated hack-and-slash tendencies by over-describing firearm impacts, so once again, I'd like to hear your take on this.
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