Post originally by Krypter at 2003-11-28 11:16:16
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Yeah, this game sounds like it's written by a communist-wannabe university student who has just discovered Politics 101 ("those pooor third-world people are soooo oppressed by the evil American corporations").
You sure this deserves a 3 for content? Sounds like puerile garbage. But then again, it will probably be a big hit with "politically-aware" college students on dope.
Post originally by John " The Communist " Cram at 2003-11-28 15:27:58
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Communist , of witchs largest groupoing is Leninist-bolshivik ( I.e. Trotskyists ) Are Agaisnt Stalin . There goes youre tryany of Communist arguments . Secondly , this book is garbage for 2 reasons other then those stated by trash head yupps like ur selves .
1)Corporation already dominate the state and always have . To qoute Trotsky "Economics determines politcs "
2)Capitilism is Imperialist , Not mono Imperialist . Its nver Internatinolizied to the Extent this Author Suggests .
and furthermore....
..... Ho tall ca you reaLY BULID A TOWER LIKE THOSE IN bLADERUNNER .
Post originally by Tim at 2003-11-28 16:21:18
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Capitalism is one thing but what the author is getting at (i think), and John hit on as well, is that we really don't have capitalism when the lazie fare is destroyed by corporate interests. Krypter, if you took the time to read, the game takes place in america so there are no oppressed third-world people.
This game, while simplistic, is not bad at all. I traded for it and the things that are said in the review are prety much right but I would have given the system a higher rating. I have been running CP games for a long time and this one is easy... as long as you don't try to have a character hack.
Overall it is a solid game.
And Krypter, learn to type.
Post originally by Arkham618 at 2003-11-28 17:53:42
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Hoo-boy! If we're going to pick nits, there are far more Maoists on Earth than ever there were Stalinists, Marxist-Leninists, or Trotskyites. As for your shaky logic (and rather bad spelling and grammar), the long-standing antagonism between Stalinists and Trotskyites does nothing to disprove Krypter's analysis. Trotsky wanted to export the revolution globally, in what would have amounted to a worldwide communist empire. He led the Soviet invasion of Poland in 1921 for Chrissake, and would have marched all the way to Berlin if the Poles hadn't rebuffed him.
Regarding corporations, I've said it many times before: you can't have big business without big government. Protectionist trade measures and subsidies are what make big, monopolistic corporations possible, and those can only be enforced by governments.
Post originally by Arkham618 at 2003-11-28 18:07:57
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The U.S. hasn't had anything even remotely resembling a _laissez faire_ economy since before its civil war. Corporations during that time have grown larger and more powerful specifically because they were encouraged to do so by government. The great irony that few Americans wish to stomach is that they elected the leaders whose legislation made lumbering giants like Microsoft, AT&T, and McDonalds possible. Oh, and if you didn't notice, the U.S. in Dystopia _is_ a Third World country, full of repressed slumdwellers and homeless nomads.
Post originally by John DeHope 3 at 2003-11-28 20:06:50
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If I ever get around to distributing my rules-light sci-fi rpg, I want it to have a background specifically addressing a freedom-loving capitalist society versus a socialist government like what we have now in the US.
Post originally by Tim at 2003-11-28 21:12:35
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Arkam is right,corporations on massive scale require big government.
In response to the statement that corporations are not internationalised I have to say that you need to look at the multi-nationals like Halliburton and Betchel. there is a mcdonalds in red Square and coke sells world wide. just to name a few examples.
As for the Freedom loving game from John, I think that anything based on the cyber punk idea, william gibson type, is essentially a game of revolution against the corporations or big government.
Maybe you just wanted to post but there is very little in Dystopia that says that capitalism is a bad thing and there is nothing (that I have found) that says that socialism is a good thing. It is mainly about freeing people from oppression of artifical inteligence, clones and corporations.
I found another review on RPG.net that was done by someone else that has a bit more in it than this one and is closer to what the game really is.
Dystopia has its good and bad parts but I like it because it allows me the ability to do what I want as a GM. The rules-light aspect is a good thing I think.
Post originally by Tim at 2003-11-28 22:01:56
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So this is an addendum to my post above... I must say that the largest contribution that Dystopia has mead for me is that it has opened my eys to something that I never really thought about before... The timeline thing that I downloaded from rpgnow had a couple of links at the end of it and I checked them out... all I have to say is WTF? Are these sites for real?
Is this really what has happened?
Does anyone have any info on this?
thanks
tim
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