Post originally by Thoth Amon at 2003-12-06 08:15:28
Converted from Phorums BB System
"and is four pages of utterly unforgettable plot and characters"
Don't you mean forgettable?
Nice review, by the way. As far as the product goes, I really like the articles on Templars and Witch hunters. Like you, I find the "FIghting Chaos: Why Bother?" article annoying (along with most of the opinion pieces.) The good guys rarely, if ever winning is one of the trademarks of WFRP and one of its strongest points, IMO.
Post originally by Rob at 2003-12-06 09:48:44
Converted from Phorums BB System
Warpstone is only remarkable for turning the best selling British RPG of all time into an ongoing, drawn out whine about how Warhammer isn't as good as it used to be.
When they are not moaning about the "simplification" of the GW approach to WFRP, they are producing some of the most stunningly tedious RPG articles of all time. ("Coins of the Old World," anyone? Didn't think so.)
WFRP used to be fun - stacked with Rick Priestly's devious puns and a nicely eccentric background that skated so close to Lord of the Rings that it's amazing old JRR's Estate haven't sued.
But now its legacy is run by hacks who apparently want to spend all of their time in pointless debate about which elements of "modern" Warhammer to ignore because it doesn't fit in with their "canon" view of WFRP. Despite the fact that the people who wrote it are, by and large, still working with GM.
I'm not suprised that Hogshead gave up the ghost - too tired of the moaning that came from Warpstone and other sources.
Post originally by Whymme at 2003-12-06 12:49:51
Converted from Phorums BB System
It's always nice to read an interesting, well-thought-out opinion that's right to the point and written by someone who knows what he's talking about.
In this case, though... the review was not about Warpstone (there was a review about that a week ago; Rob seems to be coming in late) but about a book that was published by Hogshead. No article about currency in the Old World is found in that book. If Warpstone is indeed only filled with hacks' whines about modern Warhammer, as Rob claims, then it's quite amazing that Hogshead (who became tired of those moans, again according to Rob) not only took care of the distribution of the 'zine, but even went as far as to publish a compilation of those whines and sell it as a WFRP product.
Post originally by Oliveira at 2003-12-06 14:10:57
Converted from Phorums BB System
Rob wrote:
-------------------------------
But now its legacy is run by hacks who apparently want to spend all of their time in pointless debate about which elements of "modern" Warhammer to ignore because it doesn't fit in with their "canon" view of WFRP. Despite the fact that the people who wrote it are, by and large, still working with GM.
------
Well, Rob, that statement is a piece of pure, undiluted crap.
First, the Warpstone writers are not hacks. Some of them are even professionally published writers, such as Anthony Ragan and Alfred Nunez. They do not spend all their time moaning about WFRP and GW - in fact, I can't at the time being remember them spending ANY time in the magazine doing that.
And "working with GM"? I suppose you mean GW? As far as I know, only one of the original WFRP-writers are still working for them. Even if they did, it wouldn't really matter, would it, since GW isn't publishing WFRP anymore...
Post originally by Fulsrush at 2003-12-06 16:28:58
Converted from Phorums BB System
Tim Eccles' opinion pieces generally miss the point slightly, from the viewpoint of most WFRP fans I've come across.
He seems to his own version of the world in his head that deviated from the canon at around the time WFRP was written and has evolved separately.
It's not a ~bad~ version of the world, but I find it dull as ditchwater in comparison to the more violent, doom-laden, brutal alternative that GW (and later Hogshead) preferred.
Post originally by Robin Low at 2003-12-07 05:39:53
Converted from Phorums BB System
Hi
I feel that this message needs responding to. However, I should point out my biases. Firstly, I've had one article in Warpstone, as well as an NPC piece in Legion, the irregular newsletter for subscribers. I have another article on the way, and have recently started doing proof-reading for the magazine. That said, I was a regular Warpstone reader before I started writing and my first article resulted from a letter of mine that Warpstone printed, in which I was particularly scathing of an article. Biased I may be, but I'm still capable of finding fault with the magazine.
This is the first outright condemnation of Warpstone I've seen, and I subscibe to the WFRP mailing list and keep an eye on the discussions at the forums at Critical Hit and Strike-to-Stun. All I can say is that there are a lot of people out there who like Warpstone and get a great deal out of it. Also, since Hogshead decided to distribute it and allow it an independent editorial voice, Hogshead must have liked what it was doing and saying. James Wallis, who used to own and run Hogshead, is bloody demanding and not the sort of guy to involve himself with any old rubbish, especially if it was going to damage his interests.
Warpstone has never whined about GW's constant changes to the Warhammer World, although it has pointed out the contradictions and changes between Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. This seems only sensible, as many fans of WFRP (who have nothing directly to do with Warpstone) have serious problems with the way GW constantly revises the background. Just check out the mailing list and the forums I mentioned for evidence of this. WFRP fans in general may be having a pointless debate, but Warpstone just points out where they might find problems with new material.
Stunningly tedious articles? You mention 'Coins of the Old World' (actually called 'The Simple Coin'). On the face of it, it may not sound like the stuff of high adventure. On the other hand, money is pretty important to most people. People fight for it, people steal it, people spend their entire working lives trying to earn more of it. In WFRP there is a Forger career. Part of the classic 'Death on the Reik' sequence of 'The Enemy Within' campaign involves the PCs becoming river traders. This is in important topic, and the article serves to highlight issues of minting, commerce and banking, providing potential plots. Actual decriptions of coins in the article boils down to a relatively few lines toward the end.
Even if this is a boring article, you fail to mention a long series of articles describing the city of Talabheim, which is stuffed with locations, NPCs and plot ideas. Or artcles such as 'Clerics of Shallya' and 'The Church of Sigmar', which develop important parts of the Old World that have never been examined before in any depth. Or regular scenarios, most of which avoid using Chaos as the principle plot device over and over again. Or 'The Sea of Claws', which develops and describes the vast coastline around the north of The Empire, Kislev and Norsca, and is so full of plot hooks it hurts. Or 'Scaled Down', looking at the Lizardmen outside Lustria. There have been articles written by Anthony Ragan, who wrote the Marienburg sourcebook for Hogshead (Ragan was also guest editor one issue) and Alfred Nunez Jr., who wrote 'Stone and Steel', Hogshead's Dwarf sourcebook. Graeme Davis, who co-created the Fimir and wrote for 'The Enemy Within' campaign, also contributed some light-hearted articles. There are many other good articles, which I don't list for the sake of brevity.
There is an argument that Warpstone could do with a bit more fantasy in it, and those involved are aware of it. However, Warpstone has produced a great deal of material that develops the setting and institutions of the Warhammer World, providing characters, locations and plots. On balance, Warpstone has made the Old World a hell of lot more credible and interesting than it was before. The fact that Warpstone (non-profit, amateur, free-time) has survived suggests that a lot of WFRP players and GMs love it and keep buying it, which they wouldn't do unless they found that it was interesting, useful and good value for money.
Linear Mode
