Power Corrupts was the first Superlink product released for MnM. It has been quite some time since its release and the discussion has largely died down. The book is problematic and I've held off on this review, hoping that what I had to say and how it might impact opinion of the book would stand in comparrision to other Superlink products.
Post originally by Lee Hammock at 2004-03-29 19:19:12
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Obviously when writing a book one hopes to please a reader better than I did here, but regardless thanks for taking the time to write up the review. Some of the issues you mentioned are going to be fixed in the update of Power Corrupts and the print version of Power Corrupts 1 & 2 called Power Corrupted. For example Blindsense and Meld are gone, Reality Control is rewritten from the ground up, the original intent of Confession Burn is clarified, and lots of point costs are altered (also the revised edition will have 10 example NPCs using the powers). The revised edition will be available free to anyone who bought Power Corrupts.
Post originally by Smokestack Jones at 2004-03-30 02:20:39
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Hey Arcady,
Great job. Nice in-depth review. I did have a question, though.
You mentioned in your Conclusion that "Something I never liked of the Champions crowd was how they would try to fit everything in the universe into the existing power structure in their core rulebook rather than accept that there was room for new powers and that their engine could not handle everything with ease or even possibility."
I myself am a vet Champions player and I understand what you mean, but I don't think this is a bad thing. Now, this may just be a difference in thinking between us, but IMO a supers RPG SHOULD have a core rulesbook comprehensive enough to build whatever you could need in the game powers-wise. As far as I'm concerned, a Supers RPG should just be a collecion of effects you use to construct your character's powers and abilities. I can't really concieve of a supers RPG that isn't effects-based (despite other things I have read, I consider M&M an effects-based powers system). That's why I couldn't understand the "building" of new powers in M&M; that's what you do with the existing effects in the core book.
Anyway, didn't want to get on you about that, just something confusing to me. All in all, good review, and I enjoyed it very much.
Post originally by arcady at 2004-03-30 12:38:56
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I said it because I feel that once you decide you can handle everything you're in fact making a grand statement as to not being able to handle even more.
What you're really doing is saying you will not notice all of the things you cannot handle - you will become blind to them to the point of believing them to be fictions.
Plato said, as Socrates, that true wisdom is knowing nothing and admitting it - that it is impossible to know everything.
The same holds for a system of game mechanics, and in a genre as wide open as super heroes it only takes the next comic book to find something you cannot currently handle.
Post originally by Smokestack Jones at 2004-03-30 13:23:54
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Hey Arcady,
True. And it would be folly for a system to try to play "catch up" with the genre (are you listening, editors of WOTC's FR game line?). I just feel that since in 4th Ed Champions on, the HERO folks took great pains to make it a "one-book" system. And with good reason, if you remember the rest of the older (around the time of 2nd-3rd Ed Chamipons) line, which seemed to have to add and reinterperet things constantly (you know, skills in Danger Int'l or Justice Inc. that would work differently than the same ones in Champions or Fantasy Hero-and don't EVEN get me started about FH's magic system). Thus the feeling among HERO folk about "only use what's in the core book." Hell, after 4th Ed, I used to scour subsequent releases, to make sure they were compliant with the BBB. Better that then have a tacked-on mess that HERO became previous to that.
Anyway, that's just to put the "HERO mindset" in perspective. If M&M can do it the other way better, I'm all for it.
Post originally by lizard at 2004-03-30 16:12:03
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There was a common trend among Hero fans to believe that you had to do EVERYTHING with the powers in the BBB; that nothing else could be added or changed, no matter how much simpler it would be. (This has been dropped with FRED, as there are new power adders, advantages, and so on in most of the supplements.) My canonical example is a humongous flame war on the Hero list a few years back over how to make a sword whose wounds could not be magically healed. My (and other, sane, peoples solutions) was to call this a +1/4 advantage on HKA and be done with it. A vocal contigent, however, insisted on trying to build the effect using existing powers, ending up with the most insanely baroque constructions, all to avoid adding to the sacred and perfect text.
Post originally by arcady at 2004-03-30 16:28:24
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I believe we're in close agreement actually.
You'll note in my review that my big issue with the book is that it does not make it's new powers 'the MnM way'. Thus it's not compliant in many cases.
MnM has several pages devoted to a system for building new powers, and there is also a methodology accepted in the book and the community.
You can build new powers and still be compliant with the core MnM book. That's been the goal of this review.
Post originally by arcady at 2004-03-30 16:37:04
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The following makes my statement in the review a whole topic, but was not included as it's not a review of the book itself:
It can also be found on my website here:
http://home.pacbell.net/arcady0/MnM/Musings031804.html
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Writing Superlink Crunch material:
There are some very basic things that should be done to ensure a good book with new rules material:
1: Pay attention to the costing structure of powers in MnM. There's a whole section in the back of the powers chapter on designing new powers - read AND use it PROPERLY.
2: Don't remake an already existing core book power.
3: If a rule already exists, stick to it, add to it, but don't change it.
4: Pay attention to the way rules work in MnM, what bonus or penalty is used for what, how range works, how area works, the die rolling mechanics, and so on. Keep it consistant with the design philosophy of the game.
5: Don't give us "new" powers that are nothing more than existing powers packaged in a certain way, or with certain extras. If you have new extras or flaws - just give us those.
6: Stacking. Get it right. Even Green Ronin has trouble here... But for some reason we fans seem to get it right a lot. :P
7: Balance things not on genre-rarity, but number of game effects. The Cosmic Key should not cost 10pp/r because it's the Cosmic Key, but because it does 9 effects, or something equivalent in game-mechanic power.
8: A Weakness isn't a weakness unless it's a weakness. But neither is it an automatic character killer. Don't be too easy, and don't be too harsh. The same holds for new power flaws.
9: Balance your new feats for MnM, not for d20. MnM actually has a section on designing new feats, use it properly.
10: Think about what will happen when your new extras are used with other powers, or when other extras are applied to your new powers. Make sure common applications in this vien won't break the new power or extra or stunt or whatever it is.
11: A stunt is a stunt, and an extra is an extra. The game does say how to know which is which. Get it right.
12: A feat belongs in the feats section, and a power belongs in the powers section. If it should have been built as a feat, build it so. If it should have been built as a power, build it so. A good example for this is the assorted new sensory abilities - most of them are feats. A few are powers and when they are it's very easy to see how they differ from the other senses. In some way, they simple cannot be resolved with Spot checks (such as ESP - which has the complexity of a different range scheme, or precognition - where you need to know how far through time it works. Most new sensory powers though, are already in the core book under the detect feat.
13: Get playtesters. Make sure they know MnM if what you desire is for them to test any new mechanics or writeups.
14: If you don't know how something should be done, get one of the more critically minded people in the MnM community to help you - if not the community as a whole.
15: The most important thing though, is to remember to keep faith with the design philosophy of the game.
The community here has the best grasp of MnM's nature and where it should go next. So if you're unclear, feel us out over a number of mechanics issues and you'll start to see how the logic of the game holds up (or fails where MnM breaks down).
While this is not Champions where we try to believe the entire universe can be replicated with our existing engine, there is something of an 'MnM way' out there...
Post originally by Threedub at 2004-03-30 17:36:14
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I'll be looking forward to the free update!
I also had issues with some of the powers and the editing (PC2 was much better than PC1), but reading through it generated a lot of NPC ideas so it was worth it to me.
Keep striving to get better Lee but don't stop writing. We need more M&M material.
Post originally by Smokestack Jones at 2004-03-30 19:00:25
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Hey Arcady,
Yup, looks like we are. It's an overreaction to the 2nd-3rd edition days, where you were obliged to buy practically every new HERO game/supplement, 'cuz you never know if some propellerhead gamer in your group would decide to use something out of, say, Star Hero because it's cheaper/more efrective that way.
No joke, I had a player in the 4-color Champions campaign I was involved in that made a Dr. Strange type using one of the rewrites of the Fantasy Hero Magic System. Due to the cost difference in the two games at the time, he was WAY overpowered at the get, with a lot of front-loaded spells and such. What a pain.
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