Cyberpunk is a great system for running any sort of Cyberpunk game. The system is streamlined and easy to undertand, while not being so rules light that it might as well not be an RPG. I highly reccomend anyone who is a fan of the Cyberpunk genre, or even Science Fiction in general to check it out.
Post originally by Argent at 2004-05-17 04:12:20
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<<...despite the fact that the system is at its core around 15 years out of date...>>
I find this a curious statement to make, and perhaps you didn't mean what the above implies.
What it implies is that RPG systems have some kind of shelf-life. Like software, upgrades or new editions give you a system that's more powerful, feature-rich, more modern. After a few years (or months!) you need to replace it with something 'more modern', because that's what fashion/the industry/gaming trends dictate.
I've never seen RPG mechanics in that way. If the system supports the setting and genre, does so effectively that suits your style of play, and can do so without you having to do lots of tweaking or house-ruling to make it playable, then age or the time it was written should be unimportant. Different editions of systems (or upgrades) don't necessarily make the game any better: look at Traveller, which has been through lots of different editions, each changing the rules and mechanics, none of which, it can be argued, have actually improved on the original game or made it more up to date. Many other games have core rules that are rooted firmly in the history of roleplaying and continue to be enjoyable, effective etc, many years after first being introduced. Chaosium's 'Basic Roleplaying', the engine for Runequest, Cthulhu, and many others, is a good case in point. Even good old AD&D, whilst flawed, still provides a solid system for gaming, despite the d20 revolution.
True, there are lots of systems that ARE dated, broken, and have been superceded by better mechanics, but Cyberpunk, IMHO, remains a good, solid, system that represents what it's trying to do successfully, and has been imitated (always a good sign!) by other games since.
Post originally by newsalor at 2004-05-17 06:49:09
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I would like to point out that in the cyperpunk genre of books, many of the main charaters use drugs and though it may not be advantageous to the characters, I bet that many players will want their characters to do druqs.
Post originally by Neel Krishnaswami at 2004-05-17 08:27:14
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The drug rules in CP2020 were hilarious; the <em>beer</em> equivalent will turn the average character into a shivering wino in thrall to demon drink after a six pack. I mean, did Nancy Reagan write these rules, or what?
Post originally by Stephenls at 2004-05-17 08:38:19
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Neel Krishnaswami wrote:
<i>> I mean, did Nancy Reagan write these rules,
> or what?</i>
Pretty much.
The line developer is really anti-drug, so the drug rules are all ridiculously harsh to discourage PCs from using them. White Wolf it ain't.
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Stephenls
Geek
Post originally by Stephenls at 2004-05-17 08:56:39
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Argent wrote:
<i>I find this a curious statement to make, and perhaps you didn't mean what the above implies.
What it implies is that RPG systems have some kind of shelf-life. Like software, upgrades or new editions give you a system that's more powerful, feature-rich, more modern. After a few years (or months!) you need to replace it with something 'more modern', because that's what fashion/the industry/gaming trends dictate.
I've never seen RPG mechanics in that way. If the system supports the setting and genre, does so effectively that suits your style of play, and can do so without you having to do lots of tweaking or house-ruling to make it playable, then age or the time it was written should be unimportant. Different editions of systems (or upgrades) don't necessarily make the game any better: look at Traveller, which has been through lots of different editions, each changing the rules and mechanics....</i>
Game technology develops over time.
(I'm using "technology" here as a general word to describe systems created to fulfill a goal. In the case of gaming, the goal is "fun" first, and in the case of a game like Cyberpunk, "genre emulation" probably second, and the system is, er, the system. The rules.)
The first RPGs were very, very primitive. They worked, and indeed they still work, but they didn't and don't work very well for modern gaming purposes, because the writers really had no experience with RPGs and what an RPG needs. They're like the Wright Brothers -- the Wright Flyer could only fly for 12 or so seconds at a time. People just didn't know how to build airplanes back then.
As people gamed, they started adding rules to cover situations those first games didn't. Then other games were published. For a while everybody was in love with skill systems and percentiles. Then they weren't. I'm not interested in writing a history of gaming, here, but you get the idea.
Since the publication of Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0., gaming technology has advanced. For instance, Cyberpunk doesn't use hit points anymore, at least not for wounds -- but the Humanity system is essentially just hit points for your empathy. Take damage when you get metal implanted, heal damage with therapy. There are other, arguably better ways to do this sort of thing -- the Cyberpunk authors admitted as much when they decided not to use hit points for actual wounds. They put the combat system together to carefully model FBI reports on the results of violence, creating as close to a realistic combat system as anything from their time -- but humanity is as far from modeling realistic psychological degredation as Original D&D was from modeling real injury.
It <i>is</i> an outdated game, in that if a set of talented game designers set out to create a Cyberpunk RPG today, the result wouldn't look much like Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0., and would likely facilitate the style of play Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. is shooting for more efficiently than does the game under discussion.
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Stephenls
Geek
Post originally by Robin Ashe at 2004-05-17 12:27:48
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It's called "smash" not beer, and is the future equivalent, as in easily accessible and everyone has smash guts instead of beer guts. It's not actually beer, it just has the same role in society as beer does.
Post originally by Robin Ashe at 2004-05-17 12:32:29
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Yeah, you're right. I should have said "despite the fact that the system is 15 years old" instead of "15 years out of date". I was thinking of the setting when I said out of date.
"True, there are lots of systems that ARE dated, broken, and have been superceded by better mechanics, but Cyberpunk, IMHO, remains a good, solid, system that represents what it's trying to do successfully, and has been imitated (always a good sign!) by other games since."
Yeah, I agree with that fully. Mechanics-wise Cyberpunk is still quite strong. It's eerily similar to d20, which is really neat as it precedes d20 by 10 years. Maybe in another 10 years we'll see the d30 system - it would be the logical progression
Post originally by Robin Ashe at 2004-05-17 12:36:41
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Well yes, there have certainly been advances in RPGs since Cyberpunk was released, but it certainly holds up a lot better than other 15 year games out there.
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