Post originally by Eddy Webb at 2004-06-21 11:37:57
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Thank you very much for the very detailed review! I'd like to address a few of your comments, if I may.
<i>I would have to add the 1990s comic book Wetworks (published by Wildstorm) to the list, as it is possibly closer to the Dark Brigade concept than any of those listed, even G.I. Joe!</i>
I've only recently been informed of the existance of this comic, or I certainly would have added it to the list. I would like to actually locate some issues to read at some point, but overall the concept sounds dead-on with DU.
<i>My biggest criticism of the book is that the channel order is completely backwards. First they give you the solution to the problem (the Dark Brigade), then they tell you how to tweak the problem to your own tastes (the Gamemaster channel), and only then do they state the problem.</i>
I'm not sure what "problem" you refer to here. The intention was to present the book in two halves - the player's half (background, character rules, and ready-made PCs) and the GM's half (GM suggestions and rules, NPC antagonists, and story ideas). In my experience, players who don't want to read the whole book will usually stop reading at the point they see "GM's chapter". :-)
<i>For example, the cover art clearly shows some nameless grunt soldiers fighting on the side of the Dark Brigade, but they are never mentioned inside the book. I wanted to know who they were, how to handle them (good guy Goon Factor?), and so on.</i>
You're correct - that's left open. They could be PC heroes, they could be another nation's army coordinating with the Dark Brigade, or they could be DB grunts. Again, it's an homage to the genre - the G.I.Joe organization is staffed exclusively by the main characters... until the writers need a lot of grunts for a big scene.
<i>Also, the book states that the Brotherhood of Death has taken over the fictional South American nation of Santa Cisco, but this conflicts with the fact that most of the world’s population has no idea that these supernatural creatures even exist. So it’s not clear if the Brotherhood is the actual government of Santa Cisco, which would seem to bring them into the public eye, or if they control it from the shadows using human puppets to hide their presence.</i>
I had envisioned that they had control over the country's President, not acting as the actual governmental structure itself.
<i>The “not enough” criticism also extends to the vehicles. In the 80s, I watched the GI Joe cartoon, read the comic book, and played with the toys. Both G.I. Joe and their enemy, Cobra, are largely defined by all the cool vehicles at their disposal. However, the Darkness Unleashed book only gives a small sampling for each faction. I was hoping to see a lot more vehicles for varied terrain types and situations (i.e., a swamp buggy, an arctic snow tank, and so on).</i>
I would love to have them as well, but space only allowed so much material. However, since the vehicle rules are fairly easy in CAH, filling these gaps should be no problem. If time permits, at some point I would like to do an article for our CAH e-magazine <i>After These Messages...</i> with more vehicles for both sides.
<i>Overall, my complaint with the art would be the same that I have with the core Cartoon Action Hour book – not much of it feels like it was actually peeled off my TV screen during a Saturday morning cartoon marathon. A lot of it is just fine as far as RPG art goes, but I’d like to see the artists strive more for the look and feel of the cartoons that are the game’s inspiration. When a piece of art does capture this feel, I think it goes a long way toward envisioning the way the game should be played, with the proper 1980s action cartoon mindset.</i>
Art is always a tricky choice, but we've opted for a more comicbook/80s revival feel, because... well, let's face it, most 80s animation was pretty bad. We wanted to go for "cool" over "authentic" - it's one of the few places in our books that we didn't go for pure 80s feel.
<i>My only complaint would be a personal pet peeve – I hate when a character writeup begins in the middle of a page because it’s harder to locate it on the fly.</i>
Agreed. I had originally wanted each character to have a one page writeup. However, various technical problems prevented that. :-(
<i>By making it a bit grittier, maybe using the increased horror suggestions in the Gamemaster section, it could easily be played as a more serious campaign setting without any of the 1980s cartoon trappings.</i>
I actually briefly ran an online game called Dark Brigade: Shadow War which was intended as a modern revivial of the Dark Brigade cartoon set in 2004. It didn't last very long, but the website is still up with the background and my optional rules, if people are interested.
Again, thank you for the very comprehensive review!
Post originally by Dan Davenport at 2004-06-21 11:51:53
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I'd be curious to know how the game handles violence in relation to the way actual 80's cartoons did. Back then, nothing that could actually be HURT by a weapon was allowed to be HIT by a weapon. G.I. Joe would just spray gunfire in the air until the enemy gave up, in classic A-Team fashion.
So, can vamps actual bite and be dusted in this game?
Post originally by David Stallard at 2004-06-21 11:53:04
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I'm not sure what "problem" you refer to here. The intention was to present the book in two halves - the player's half (background, character rules, and ready-made PCs) and the GM's half (GM suggestions and rules, NPC antagonists, and story ideas). In my experience, players who don't want to read the whole book will usually stop reading at the point they see "GM's chapter". :-)
Your explanation does makes sense, but I think really the core element of the setting is the Brotherhood of Death...the Dark Brigade is really just a response to the Brotherhood. So I would've liked to have seen more setup of the dangers of the Brotherhood, their nefarious goals, etc., before launching into humanity's response. But I can also see how a GM might want the Brotherhood to be a complete unknown for him to unveil as the campaign progresses. Still, I think more info would probably benefit the players so they better understand the motives of their Dark Brigade characters while designing them.
I understand most of your other points, which is why I still rated the book as high as I did. Good stuff!
Post originally by Eddy Webb at 2004-06-21 11:55:29
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<i>Your explanation does makes sense, but I think really the core element of the setting is the Brotherhood of Death...the Dark Brigade is really just a response to the Brotherhood. So I would've liked to have seen more setup of the dangers of the Brotherhood, their nefarious goals, etc., before launching into humanity's response. But I can also see how a GM might want the Brotherhood to be a complete unknown for him to unveil as the campaign progresses. Still, I think more info would probably benefit the players so they better understand the motives of their Dark Brigade characters while designing them.</i>
A very valid point, and something we'll have to take into consideration in future books. Thank you!
Post originally by David Stallard at 2004-06-21 14:45:09
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Darkness Unleashed uses the standard damage rules from Cartoon Action Hour. Essentially, when your Hurt Points drop to zero, you are "Out of the Fight." This could mean unconsciousness, or pinned under rubble, or what have you...but out for the rest of combat. Death in CAH pretty much never happens (there's not even a rule for calculating if it happens) unless it serves the plot.
In DU, the violent aspects of the monsters such as vampires sucking blood and zombies eating flesh is something that you know happens, but it never appears "on screen." However, if you use the horror slant described in the GM chapter, then you could start having that stuff "out in the open" where the PCs and innocent bystanders witness it.
If you want to make it more realistically lethal, you basically have to go into house rule territory...maybe losing all your Hurt Points means death, or at least that you're bleeding and will eventually die if not treated.
But as written, DU is just like the cartoons...a character might be out, but you can be certain to see him again in a future episode.
Post originally by unterhund at 2004-06-21 15:22:18
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David Stallard wrote:
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<i>But as written, DU is just like the cartoons...a character might be out, but you can be certain to see him again in a future episode.</i>
Leading of course to dialog like this (at least, I hope so):
"No one could have survived that!"
"He's already been dead once, rookie. I doubt one more time will stop him."
Post originally by Eddy Webb at 2004-06-22 07:24:15
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ROTF!
Something like that actually occured during a Dark Brigade session I ran - I think it was at Origins. The main guy vampires were taken out, and the line was along the lines of "Vampires are eternal creatures, so the Dark Brigade must always be viligant!"
Post originally by Roy Morgan at 2004-06-22 18:03:35
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...drivers and pilots bailing out of vehicles targeted by cannons or missiles in the nick of time, leaving the vehicle to blow up in their wake. Or a vehicle full of heroes holding together just long enough to get them to a convenient spot to bail out, leading their foes to think they bought it with their ride.
If I remember right, the only time anyone was actually hit by gunfire in the GI Joe TV series was in the infamous "Traitor" storyline, involving a new armor-treatment formula. And of course, the Cobra troopers in question were wearing armor-treated uniforms. That had its own messy end, but it was the only exception in the TV show that I can recall.
If this game plays like that, I'll have to look for it. It sounds like a blast.
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