<i>San Juan</i> is a short, filler game that still requires a high level of thought, some strategy, and lots of tactics. It shares some of the original game design of <i>Puerto Rico</i> and introduces new ideas of its own as well, and is highly recommended.
Post originally by Eldritchheart at 2004-07-07 14:06:07
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Shannon,
How, in your estimation, is the re-playability of this game? And how much does the 'foreordained strategy' of the game factor into that?
I'm always on the lookout for games that would be good choices for just the wife and I, and San Juan looks like it might fit the bill. However, as I've noted, I'm leery of picking it up if it will 'run out it's welcome' too easily.
Post originally by Shannon Appelcline at 2004-07-07 15:07:17
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My wife and I have played 15 games of San Juan in the month or two since I picked it up. I don't think it's lost any steam so far, making it perhaps the most replayable game I've picked up all year (Memoir '44 is the only other game that's close).
I think the issue of strategy doesn't affect the replayability, because there's not 1 uberStrategy, but rather a strategy that becomes obvious each game within the first couple of turns. Meaning, it's not the same from game to game.
Post originally by Eldritchheart at 2004-07-07 16:09:28
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Ah, great. I was hoping that would be the case; replayability is big issue for me (especially if my wife takes a real liking to the game in question!). Looks like San Juan has a place on my next order.
BTW, great work on the reviews; I look forward to them every week.
Post originally by Haakon Olav Thunestvedt at 2004-07-08 02:24:35
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I bought this at ARCON (the gaming convention in Oslo) and had great fun with it in the pub. We played four player games mainly and a friend of mine got an early Poor House which were the gamebreaker in both the first games. He's an old Magic player so he recognized the value of an early card advantage. I got close in the second game with both Aqueduct/Well and Trading Post/Market Stand combos. I would guess that the producer/trader combo above is more viable the more players as in a two or three player game the producer and trader need not be taken at all.
Haakon
Post originally by Myles Corcoran at 2004-07-08 05:19:41
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I agree. I've played San Juan with my wife now about 8-10 times without any sense of it becoming preordained or repetitive. Certain strategies are obvious from certain card draws but I'm still biting my nails when I have to discard some nice cards just to get things up and running in the early game. I regularly have to change my initial tack once the first couple of builds are complete.
Having played it only a couple of times with 3 or 4 players I'm not sure if it's a better game with 2; it certainly is a rewarding two player game.
Once again, Shannon, a helpful and highly professional review. Many thanks. I look forward to your board/card game reviews and hope to read many more.
Post originally by James Stuart at 2004-07-08 06:25:37
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The producer/trader is very viable even in two or three player games: the key is taking strong advantage of situations where the actions you take gain absolutely no benefit for you opponent.
For example, a Library/Aqueduct producer gains you 4 goods, to an opponents one. If timed properly, even without any trading bonus buildings, you can get off two trades in a row, in which your opponent likely only gets one card, while you get probably about 6-8 cards. With a well or market stand (obvious complementary cards), this produce/trade/trade could easily net a card differential of nine cards.
It doesn't need those specific buildings to work, it doesn't even need a library. There are plenty of opportunities to produce twice, the second produce gaining nothing for your opponent, and then to trade twice, the second trade gaining nothing.
The overall point as far as replayability is that after two dozen plays, and talking to players who have played it more seriously (a few hundred plays), the game remains surprisingly balanced: you'll probably think, when you pick this game up, that a guild hall plus tons of production buildings is unstoppable. After a few games, you'll probably say that early libraries, especially early libraries and prefectures are unstoppable.
The cool thing is that with good tactics, they aren't (if someone builds an early library, they are now thoroughly out of cash: deny them the prospector at every opportunity, and force them either to get behind in the building cycle, or build an awkward set of buildings (since they'll be forced to either pass, or just build whatever is in their hand).
The other skill to learn is how to play every draw: it's easy to play when your first draw has a coffee roaster and prefecture in hand: learning how to win when you don't draw the cards you like is equally as important.
This is one of my favorite games now: it packs a surprising amount of depth into an easy to explain game that runs in about 10 minutes per player. That's a pretty hard to beat formula.
Post originally by Myles Corcoran at 2004-07-08 06:37:38
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I've played 10+ games of San Juan now and I'm wondering if the Triumphal Arch isn't a bit weak compared to the other six-point buildings.
The total investment for the maxed out triumphal arch is four buildings for a return of 20 points (3 for the Statue, 4 for the Victory Column, 5 for the Hero plus 8 for the TA bonus for all three monuments). That's a lot, alright, but it's three buildings that do nothing (the momuments) to improve your position once they're built. Any other six-point building works with buildings that actually do something useful beyond scoring points, be they production buildings for the Guild Hall, or violet buildings with a useful effect for the City Hall or Palace.
I haven't seen the Triumphal Arch really shine in any of the games I've played so far. What am I missing?
Post originally by Shannon Appelcline at 2004-07-08 11:44:27
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Personally, I think the monuments have good value, especially late in the game where you're only likely to get a couple of uses out of any other building you spend.
As for the utility of the Triumphal Arch compared to other "6" buildings, it's not bad. Generally, I think I'm more likely to get 6 points of out a TA than a Palace.
Early in the game, I'd be more likely to build a Guild Hall or a City Hall, because I feel like I could build to it more easily; late in the game, I'd build the Triumphal Arch, because I could get more points quicker from it. I also think that Triumphal Arch and City Hall are a very nice combination.
Post originally by Niall at 2004-07-08 12:51:17
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I regualrly lose San Juan to my girlfriend. Apart of infernal bad luck with the cards (of course!) this may be because she always goes for the chapel. It seems to me, that the chapel is an ungodly (!) powerful card. Not only do you get points for the building itself, it's also pitifully easy to get points for putting a card under it each turn. There usually is one card in your hand that you really don't need for your plans, so this is not much of a sacrifice. Ok, you have one card less for a build next turn, but then, with the chapel you get a 1 VP per card invested ratio, which is a pretty good deal in my opinion AND you also do not take up further city space. Has anyone else encountered this problem?
Linear Mode
