Ever wondered what that diabolical role-playing game that the televangelists of the nineteen-eighties used to drone on about might look like if someone actually wrote a game the way they described it? Perhaps this is that game. One way to find out, read the review.
Post originally by John McMullen at 2004-08-09 09:54:33
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By the ordering of your comments ("Sounds familiar? It did to me") there's a weak implication that Whispering Vault is copying Unbidden, which is unlikely, and I think unfair.
I know that the earliest reviews on Whispering Vault are 1997; I can't find a date on Unbidden before 2003, but I haven't looked very hard.
I think it's also unlikely that Unbidden copies Whispering Vault; it's more likely that WV is just part of the stew of games of personal horror that may have informed the creators of Unbidden.
I seem to recall that Whispering Vault came out at the same time as a release of Kult--both were part of a brief surge in modern horror roleplaying games.
Post originally by flyingmice at 2004-08-09 10:29:18
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Hi John, Kester:
I don't think that was what Kester was refering to. My reading was that he thought it was familiar because he had already reviewed Unbidden, not that either was necessarily copying the other. Unbidden did indeed come out in 2003. It was recently up for the 2003 Indie RPG Awards. I don't know for sure, but I think you are right about WV being one of several sources of inspiration for Unbidden. I may be very wrong, though. Sometimes people just come up with similar ideas completely separately.
-mice
John McMullen wrote:
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By the ordering of your comments ("Sounds familiar? It did to me") there's a weak implication that Whispering Vault is copying Unbidden, which is unlikely, and I think unfair.
I know that the earliest reviews on Whispering Vault are 1997; I can't find a date on Unbidden before 2003, but I haven't looked very hard.
I think it's also unlikely that Unbidden copies Whispering Vault; it's more likely that WV is just part of the stew of games of personal horror that may have informed the creators of Unbidden.
I seem to recall that Whispering Vault came out at the same time as a release of Kult--both were part of a brief surge in modern horror roleplaying games.
Post originally by Viktor Haag at 2004-08-09 11:12:35
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In spots, I liked your review. However, I've owned Whispering Vault and Dangerous Prey for years and don't remember them as being particularly difficult to read or understand. Nor did I think the game system was particularly obtuse or in danger of neutering the group's referee.
Like the SAGA system, WV's mechanics place all the die rolls onto the players' side of the table. This is an interesting notion, and as far as I know, only SAGA and WV have ever really built games around this notion. So, if a player wants to attack a beastie, he rolls his "Attack" skill. If he wants to avoid getting hit by the beastie, he rolls his "Avoid Getting Hit" skill. The referee rarely (never?) needs to roll anything.
Frankly, I thought that Whispering Vault packed the same kind of spooky, otherworldly horror, as all the World of Darkness games but in a more succint, elegant little bundle.
The game does depend on a background cosmology, and the players have to learn how this works in order to make sense of the world; however, I don't think they need to know all about the cosmology at the start of a campaign. A clever referee familiar with the game could introduce the cosmology to them in bits and pieces as they progress in their new jobs (as otherworldly guardians of the barrier between the realm of flesh (i.e. our world) and the beyond). And at any rate, the cosmoloy presented in the game is clearly no more complex than those presented in any WoD book, or Tribe 8, or Kult, or any other (post-)modern fantasy world.
I'd probably rate the game a solid 4/4 on the RPGnet scale.
Post originally by Viktor Haag at 2004-08-09 11:27:16
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The last page in the main Whispering Vault rulebook does contain a character sheet. This is also, as far as I know, contained in the PDF version of the rulebook.
Post originally by Kester Pelagius at 2004-08-09 12:21:37
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Greetings,
>>The last page in the main Whispering Vault rulebook does contain a character sheet. This is also, as far as I know, contained in the PDF version of the rulebook.<<
I of course meant "extras", as in seperate files with stuff like character sheets et al.
It doesn't really take much to generate a PDF from a single page within a document. You could probably PRINT TO PDF the page in question. But. . .
Had such files included it would have been nice. Especially since such smaller files could easily be copied to a floppy (for those who still use them) so they can be taken to work, or a kinko's, for easy printing out en masse.
Not that the archive isn't good, as presented, I just felt, IMO, YMMV, that it could have been better.
Post originally by Kester Pelagius at 2004-08-09 12:26:17
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Greetings,
Your comments, flyingmice, are insightful as ever.
>>I don't think that was what Kester was refering to. My reading was that he thought it was familiar because he had already reviewed Unbidden, not that either was necessarily copying the other.<<
Precisely.
I alluded to this fact earlier in the review.
>>I know that the earliest reviews on Whispering Vault are 1997; I can't find a date on Unbidden before 2003, but I haven't looked very hard.<<
It's a more recent title post-dating Whispering Vault.
Post originally by Kester Pelagius at 2004-08-09 12:35:56
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Greetings,
>>In spots, I liked your review. However, I've owned Whispering Vault and Dangerous Prey for years and don't remember them as being particularly difficult to read or understand. Nor did I think the game system was particularly obtuse or in danger of neutering the group's referee.<<
Ah, but I'd bet you read Whispering Vault in full, right?
When reviewing a product I take the approach of looking at the material like Joe Average Gamer. That means I note first impressions, taken at a glance, then sit down to find what every average gamer does. Namely how to create a character so I can just jump into playing a game.
Taken at a glance the documents are as I've stated in the review, a bit crammed and requiring much reading to sift the chaff from the wheat.
>>Frankly, I thought that Whispering Vault packed the same kind of spooky, otherworldly horror, as all the World of Darkness games but in a more succint, elegant little bundle.<<
The setting is very full of atmosphere. But comparing it just to WoD, IMO, doesn't do it full justice. It could be classifies as suspense-horror with an distinct Gnostic slash pseodo-Gothic slash Occultish undertone. Then again it's not quite that either it's.. it's.. ...
It's the Whispering Vault!
>>I'd probably rate the game a solid 4/4 on the RPGnet scale.<<
If you mean for the PRINT version, then I'm sure that's warrented. Just keep in mind I also take into account the actual media in my reviews, in this case PDFs.
All, save one, took high marks for quality. Sadly that also brought down the overall rating here.
Post originally by Mark Galeotti at 2004-08-10 08:10:14
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Interesting review, but I must say that I found it hard to reconcile the prose with the eventual rating. To me, the text seemed pretty damning: badly written, leaden, etc. Now in that context, the redeeming feature of 'there's lots here' doesn't really sound very redeeming: why do I want *more* poor material? Given how much great material is being released these days, does this really deserve to get an Average-plus rating?
I suspect part of the problem here is a general reluctance to award low marks. Average seems to be the least most people feel they can award.
That said, I'm not too bothered, because I will always go by my impressions of the text rather than the ratings.
Post originally by John F at 2004-08-10 09:28:20
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In the interests of obsessive historical accuracy, I will tell you that Whispering Vault was first published as a small (6x9") coilback in 1993. That edition was only sold at cons and by mail order. The "mass market" edition was published by Pariah Press in 1994. I'm fondling (?!) a copy of each edition right now...
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