[RPG]: Dark Champions, reviewed by James Gillen (4/5)

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10639.phtml

James Gillen's Summary:

The Book of Infinite Guns is updated for HERO System 5th Edition.

Go to the full review for more information.

Post originally by metaphysician at 2004-09-10 06:15:21
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Last I heard on the heroboards, word was that Harbinger 5e would be lacking the uber cosmic gun pool of doom, replaced with a more normal gadget pool. Otherwise, he'd be pretty much the same, though.

Post originally by arcady at 2004-09-10 15:07:45
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Way back when the groups I played with use to hold up this character as an example of what was wrong with the Hero system.

He's a normal guy with no super powers, but he was built on somewhere around a thousand points or so back then.

Players used to look at the character and wonder why the point levels were set where they were if the iconic character couldn't be done with them.

Hopefully the new version will manage to get him down to the power levels suggested in Dark Champions.

Post originally by Jack Fortune at 2004-09-10 17:28:21
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That was my problem with Dark Champions. It encouraged lower point PCs, but the sample characters had an outrageous amount of points.

Post originally by arcady at 2004-09-10 18:28:07
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The sample team in the back of the new Dark Champions is built on one of the 'normal' suggested point ranges for the book: 100 base + 100 in disadvantages.

Hopefully Harbringer will be normally when he comes out and not the 'Elminster' of Hero once again.

Post originally by Jack Fortune at 2004-09-11 07:53:05
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I agree completely. Although, I'm guessing he might be more than 200 points since he is the flagship character of the product(if that is the right word). I would like to see him made from the same amount of points as a starting character, too.

Post originally by metaphysician at 2004-09-11 17:30:30
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Maybe because the idea is that an iconic, major character will be more powerful than a new one just starting out??

The hero system doesn't default to "You are one of the big guys," it defaults to "You start at the bottom."

Post originally by metaphysician at 2004-09-11 17:31:29
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Why should he?? He's not supposed to be a normal starting character. He's supposed to be the most skilled and experienced vigilante in the setting.

Post originally by metaphysician at 2004-09-11 17:32:07
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Why?? He's *not* a starting character.

Post originally by arcady at 2004-09-11 17:58:32
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What good is a sample of a genre to me as a GM or to my players if it is outside the scope of normal play?

Look at the DnD iconics - they were constructed at key levels of DnD play to show a sample group through the levels. Look at Dai Blackthorn from GURPS - he's a 100 point character that has been present in every edition of GURPS to show an example of a fantasy character.

Look at the Freedom League in MnM's Freedom City - they're built to an average PL of 10 to show 'the archetype' of a super hero team. Thus you can slot them out and slot in the PCs, or place the PCs alongside them and not have the question of 'why do we need the PCs in this setting?'

They also serve to really help newer players and GMs know how to design a PC that works for both that game system and that setting.


Harbringer smacks too much of 'this is my personal campaign and everybody who plays in it is just there to give me fanboyism.' He's like an Elminster - with him around, why bother having anyone else? What point is there in only being around to get the issues that fell off his table?

Make him an iconic rather than an Elminster - make him a peer to the PCs rather than their 'lord and master' and he suddenly works to uphold the genre - in character design players could look to him for ideas on working out a concept, and in play the GM could use him as an ally, contact, or even opponant.

Let him get his extra 680XP through play, and not in the initial writeup...

Sure he may have been the author's PC for years, but the setting is not the the author's game once we buy it.