Post originally by Nathanael at 2004-11-10 08:20:52
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Reasons to buy the new rules...
1. Before the new rulebook, you had all sorts of variations for all sorts of different rules spread out over multiple rulebooks, codexes and White Dwarf articles.
The new rulebook has compiled all of those rules into one easy to find place. Certain rules that were actually the same, but worded in numerous ways in numerous codexes are now gathered under the heading of 'universal special rules,' clarified and updated greatly to eliminate any confusion. Like the Fleet of Foot rule for Eldar and the Fleet of Claw rule for Tyrannids, which are now listed in the main rulebook under the Fleet special rule.
Also, the whole, Fearless/Stubborn/No no Fear rules have been defined so that they actually are different.
2. The general rules ARE very different in many ways.
*The Assualt rules have gone through the most intensive change. These are not the Trail Assault rules of the previous edition! They are MUCH more streamlined and easy to use, and result in swift,bloddy combats where those better equipped for assault usually win quickly, as opposed to getting bogged down in scrums in the middle of the field that last all game. Also, Fearless units that lose against overwhelming odds still don't break, but they do take extra wounds from being outnumbered. A swarm of Tyranids or Orks is now much more menacing than before.
*The template rules have changed to eliiminate character sniping with templates and now involve 'pinning' for some templates, where the the squad under fire from an ordanace weapon must make a Morale check or lose their ability to move and fire next turn as they duck and cover.
*The vehicle rules are also streamlined and very different. Bikes and Jetbikes may 'Turbo-boost' now: they may move 24" and their save becomes Invulnerable, but they can't shoot or assault that turn. I lost one game due to the clever manuevering of but a single attack bike using this rule to take an objective.
I could go on. And On. Even about the individual sections above on which I only scratched the surface, But suffice to say, the general rules are very different.
3. There ARE more than just the regular rules and pretty pictures in this book. In the back are:
*additional missions for advanced play along with rules for bunkers, minefields, fortifications, etc. and instructions on making these items for your table (including templates for making ruins and bunkers!).
*three different systems for running campaigns.
*two alternate ways of playing either using Combat Patrol (small 400 point game rules) or Kill Teams, a sort of 'Dirty Dozen' style game where you take a small squad of specialists against a hoard of goons.
*Experience rules and special veteran skills to use with them.
*an Index! Finally!
So all of those, plus the new stitched binding which allows the book to lay flat without all the pages falling out, are reason enough for me to buy the thing.
And considering it took 5 years for them to upgrade the game from the Third edition, I don't think it is a 'screw job' for the customers. Especially as it is only the 4th Edition of the game since its release in 1986! Almost 20 Years!
Indeed, you can get the basic starter box for $45 and it comes with a smaller rulebook, which is basically the first third (the main rules portion) of the hardback book, a scenario book that shows you how to play a few rules at a time using the miniatures in the box and 6 clever scenarios, and a complete squad of Marines, a horde of termagents and genestealers, an imperial pilot and terrain which includes a crashed shuttle and various bits of Imperial and Tyrannid scenery.
A lot of people who have the main rulebook are actually getting the box as well so they can have the smaller book to carry around in their army boxes, and all the neat new terrain.
Not only that, but the way they did it, you can actually use your old codex until the new one comes out without having to use a 'get you by' list as with other editions.
If the new Space Marine Codex is any indicator, however, you'll be wanting a new one to come out for your army sooner than later, as the new codex design is spectacular and encourages even more individual armies. In summary, it is well worth your money to get one or the other or both. The new game is a vast step forward from the backwards step that was third edition.
Post originally by Tracy at 2004-11-10 08:21:57
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Your review was brief, uninformative and barely literate. Nothing more than poorly written slander. You could have at least compared it to previous editions or evaluate it a bit more objectively for the people who've never played 40k before. Instead you come off like 12 year old writing ESL.
Post originally by David Rhode at 2004-11-10 12:03:11
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Because, clearly, EVERY OTHER reviewer on this site has a minimum of a Master's degree in English, a four-year apprencticeship to Dan Davenport and 25 years of familiarity with every aspect of the gaming industry...
Post originally by David Rhode at 2004-11-10 12:16:35
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I don't know if 3 (at the time of writing this response) is a horde, but you are certainly going to be besieged by GW True Believers demanding that you be tarred and feathered for posting a negative review of a GW product.
Now, I wouldn't say that yours was the best or fairest review of 4th ed. I've seen, but I think you've admirably encapsulated the frustration of those of us who keep on returning to GW like a moth to a flame, and keep on getting burned.
If only the game hadn't had such initial promise back in the old days of Rogue Trader.
If only the miniatures weren't so generally good, and painted up so well by so many top painters.
If only it wasn't the most popular wargame, such that you can virtually guarantee you'll find players no matter where you go.
If only there were more support for good, small-press universal systems like MJ12's upcoming Defiance (formerly Starslayer), GZG's Stargrunt, the currently defunct but possibly resurrectable VOR, or systems like VOID and Warzone...
Then maybe we could kick the GW habit and find something else to complain about.
Post originally by Philomousos at 2004-11-10 14:34:54
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This review fails to answer certain questions:
1) What is Warhammer 40K? What kind of game is it and what is gameplay like? What is the main premise?
2) When you say "Substance 1", do you mean that the game Warhammer 40K as it currently exists is a Waste of Money, or only that this new edition is not worth buying if you already have a/the previous edition?
For example, I don't own any edition of Warhammer 40K. Does the reviewer mean that I should regard WH40K to be total @!#$ and not buy *any* edition, or just not buy *this* edition, or only not buy this edition if I already have third edition, etc.?
Post originally by Nathanael at 2004-11-10 15:30:26
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Well, I can answer that for you. If you've never played 40k or any other GW game before, I strongly suggest getting the Battle For Macragge beginner box. A rulebook, a scenario book with learn as you go scenarios, a ton of models, terrain and everything needed to start playing, and all for $45.
So for about the same price as a PC game, you are getting a package that will introduce you to the system and provide a starting point for two different armies.
If you're a wargamer already, then I suggest getting the main rulebook for all the reasons I mentioned in the 'I Disagree' thread. It's $5 more, but it is a quality book with well layed out rules and enough supplimentary material to keep you gaming for a long time.
Now I say this to everyone, the initial outlay for 40K IS relatively large: around $100-$150 US. For that you can get the rulebook, an army codex and enough models to start a 500pt army.
But compare that to the investment in a PS2 or similar system and you're looking at $200 for the main console, $30 for a second controller, and $50 for a game, for a grand total of $280 in comparison, and another $50 investment every month or so after that to replace played out games.
The investment in 40k doesn't seem so large in comparison, especially when you consider you will be using all the material you buy for it as long as you play it, as opposed to replacing it every month like you do a video game. If you increase your army size by 250-500 pts at a time, you'll find you're not spending any more than you would on video games, but you'll be building on the initial purchase.
And despite the claims that you have to 'buy everything over again' when new editions come out, that is patently untrue and I know quite a few people who use miniatures from the second edition or even Rogue Trader. Indeed, you can still purchase many of these from GW.
But even then, you can often sell your painted army for at least what it was worth when you bought it and start another army with the cash from that (as I have done many times when my painting skills improved). Compare this to the resale value of a Video Game: 10% if you're lucky.
So, 40k is a much cheaper and longer lasting investment than many other hobbies, especially as you will find them more mental and less twitch oriented, something that becomes important as you age. Plus, it's just plain old fashioned FUN...
Post originally by No Name Cruiser at 2004-11-10 18:39:53
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I agree. It sound like one of my middle school students writing a 'review'. I've gotten more information from the replies to the review than the 'review' itself.
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