This could have been a nice mix of rules-light, modern mechanics, and nostalgia. Unfortunately, nostalgia pummeled rules-light and modern mechanics into unconsciousness.
Post originally by rjk2000 at 2005-02-11 06:13:52
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As someone who is having a good time with the book, you make some good, strong, and accurate points about its faults. Pity that your points were drowned out by the snarky and sometimes superior attitude.
Post originally by Philomousos at 2005-02-11 06:38:39
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Thanks for the review. It was informative and easy to read. I had actually decided to give the game a pass before reading this review, but you collected a list of all the relevant issues here, as well as a few I wasn't aware of.
I'd also like to see something on the lines of a "Cyclopedia v.2" - basically OD&D with race distinct from class, a unified XP table and 3e style multi-classing and attribute bonuses (and a simple Critical Hit system). I could probably write it myself, but I've got more important things to do.
The one point that you took a swipe at that I actually like is the truncated Hit Point progression. One problem with 3e is that Hit Points keep piling up like mad. In OD&D, a fighter stopped gaining mega-HP at 9th level, meaning that a 20th level fighter had a lot of HP but it wasn't insane like it is nowadays. Mix in the high damage values from the advanced stages of Weapon Mastery and you could take him down in a few hits.
Post originally by Johnny M at 2005-02-11 06:57:43
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So, the book is poorly formatted, contains several obtuse sentences, has a number of superfulous classes, contains little on equipment, no monster listings, and only a cursory mention of magical items? Hmmm...that sounds like my old 1st edition AD&D handbook to me.
I think the game perhaps replicates AD&D a bit TOO well.
Post originally by Eric Christian Berg at 2005-02-11 07:03:09
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Not sure why you'd expect this book to be a complete game. It is a Players Handbook, which means that they are going to at least have a Castle Keepers Guide and probably a book of monsters. The blurb on the back specifies that it has everything to allow you to <b>play</b> the game, not everything to run it.
Post originally by nonsenseconscience at 2005-02-11 07:54:09
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FYI, a military press is the following:
Take weight, hold at shoulder level, press directly upwards until arms are fully extended. It's an exercise that uses the shoulder muscles and to a lesser extent the triceps...
Anyway, that's actually neither here nor there... the reason I'm pointing it out (other than potentially to satisfy other peoples' curiosity) is that 10xSTR seems kind of a low threshold for this sort of thing. I've got friends who can put up near 200 lbs this way; out of curiosity I looked at some blog training routines and found one of an amateur track and field athlete (amateur in the Olympic sense) whose workouts include sets of 20 ~250 lb military presses (seated)... which would land our athlete at 25 STR (and I'm pretty sure he IS, in fact, a regular human being).
Deadlifts are also dead wrong... the world record deadlift is around 550 lbs, which would land the record-holder at roughly 40 strength.
Post originally by catenwolde at 2005-02-11 08:06:32
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This fellow has a real bitter pill swallowed for the completeness issue, as he's made plain elsewhere at length. As you say, it's common sense: it's a PHB.
Let's open the PHB. Hmm ... page 5 (the first page of text), Heading "What Do You Need to Play?" Continues:
"Unlike many other games, Castles & Crusades requires only this book of rules, a pencil or pen, some paper, and a set of dice. The Castle Keeper will find the Castles and Crusades: Monsters and Treasures rulebook extremely useful, and the Castles and Crusades: Castle Keeper's Guide very handy as well."
There might have been less confusion if all three core books were released at the same time, but I'm sure there were practical points that dictated otherwise. The simple fact is that most people can pick up their old MM's and B2 and off they go, so an early release of the PHB was not out of order.
There are apparently minor points of "completeness" in the sense that some charts evidently could have been more complete, but to infer deception as Hektor does (here and elsewhere) is in itself misleading and, one might say, Hectoring.
By the way, although it's not mentioned in the PHB that I could see right away, the name "Castles and Crusades" is a homage to Gygax's early gaming group of the same name.
Post originally by Fiffergrund at 2005-02-11 08:14:17
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Some legitimate points, yes...
But did the reviewer actually take the time to understand why things were done the way they were, instead of throwing a hissy fit when stuff didn't adhere to his 3E-colored paradigm?
I see a lot of mudslinging about "X is dumb" and "Y is antiquated and obtuse" and "C&C isn't a complete game because Z is missing", but all that tells me is that the reviewer needs his hand held, needs a product that conforms to every personal bias, and hasn't made an effort to recognize that styles other than his preferred style can be just as valid.
Some of us don't need everything spelled out for us, thanks.
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