Post originally by Jamie Herbert at 2005-02-14 11:40:31
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Damn, Long review, but seriously It was quite well done too. I like that you admit your Biases upfront, and you seem to have worked out more facts than I would on most reviews (especially that Cost analysis) I will agree that I am biased to having sold all my oWOD stuff, in favor of the new World of Darkness. keep up the good work man.
Post originally by George Jackson at 2005-02-14 12:35:08
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The new WoD does have flaws, but instead of getting you points to spend at character creation, if the Storyteller feels you played out the flaw well they're supposed to give bonus experience for it. So character flaws can help you, but only if you actually call attention to them, no more min-maxing a bunch of flaws that will never come up for free points.
Post originally by CLAVDIVS at 2005-02-14 14:32:32
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I read your review, even though I already own both Vampire games, and thought it was interesting to see a side-by-sided comparison. I do have one quibble, though, about your complaint that the bloodlines are treated more like organizations than races.
The thing is, a bloodline IS like an organization. When a member of a bloodline embraces someone, the new vampire is a member of the sire's clan, but NOT his bloodline. As he matures, he can later choose to activate that potential in his blood and become a member of the bloodline. A vampire of the same clan who was not embraced by a member of the bloodline can join it with a member's assistance, and by tasting his blood (which puts one step closer to blood bond).
Membership in a bloodline is far more exclusive than a clan or even a covenant. Members will likely only embrace people they'd consider for membership (since they'd be able to join later whether they were welcome or not). Others can join, but with considerably more effort that joining a covenant. While there are rare exceptions (which is still a headscratcher for the greatest Kindred scholars) nearly all members of a bloodline are members by choice, unlike a clan; even if you're one of the less than 1% who aren't, pretty much everyone will treat you like you are.
As for bloodlines not being wiped out by the "big boys", some of them simply operate in secret, or did so long enough to gain sufficient power to protect themselves (like the Morbus). Others might provide too useful a service with their unique Discipline or other talents (Burakumin, at least originally). Maybe they just aren't a threat, simply a private club of vampires pursuing their own quirky interests (Toreador). And finally, a vampire can establish his own power base and become a threat to other Kindred even without a bloodline; in fact, they seem to do it all the time. Bloodlines may give them an edge, but it also makes their allies easier to spot.
Post originally by Philomousos at 2005-02-14 14:33:52
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Thanks for the great review. My quandry is that although I like VtR (and the rules therein, though I'm not done reading it), I think that the (new) WoD rules suck dog ass. So I don't know if I'll ever play it, which makes me sad.
I don't have any astounding insights to contribute, I guess. Just thought I'd report that that's where I'm at with it.
Post originally by Ezekiel Black at 2005-02-14 15:09:37
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But I'd have to say that it seems a little stretched. Bloodlines still seem as they would be wiped out due to the fact that the entirety of Vampire kind "works in secret". And I'd venture a guess that Mekhet and any other practitioners of Auspex would make the Bloodlines life support in short supply.
Different strokes. I said I wouldn't be using them in my campaign. If you find use for them, use them. Heck, if you want to port over every Clan and Discipline from VtM, go for it. Not like I can stop ya, all I do is call it like I see it.
Post originally by Ezekiel Black at 2005-02-14 15:17:48
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The Old World of Darkness rules suck dog ass. I have made this very prevalent in my review, right when I said that the combat rules were a big mess (I didn't catch it through 2 SpellChecks and one skim session)
Ah, coffee-fueled sermons at 4 AM (I'm pretty sure I wrote the Combat section at 4 AM).
I submitted this review on Sunday Morning (the 13th) at 1 AM. It took me 3 days, off and on, to write.
Post originally by Jack Fortune at 2005-02-14 15:23:46
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I really liked your review. I was impressed that you mentioned your bias to VtR right from the start, rather than posing as an objective reviewer. Still, you gave credit to VtM when it was deserved.
My experiences with oWoD are mainly with Werewolf. I seem to remember that a beginning werewolf could hold his or her own against an experienced vamp. Do you believe that this imbalance will be corrected in the new Werewolf game?
Post originally by Ezekiel Black at 2005-02-14 15:26:52
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This is my thanks to all the people who gave me thanks for my review. So far, their names are Jamie Herbert and Philomousos.
If more come, all your thanks right back at ya. My last (and first) review gave my gamer ego enough positive reinforcement for me to write this one, and this one might gimme enough to write another.
Unless I suck. Then I'll write another one anyway, just to torture everyone.
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