Post originally by Morningkill at 2005-03-07 01:37:07
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I bought (for cheap on ebay) Battlelords after reading some good reviews here, because I was looking for a generic space opera game.
I was disappointed by the writing, and the immaturity.
Two examples :
- you get the stats of the M16A2. Please note, not a "generic" M16. I find this very revealing. (I'm not saying gun nuts should not write rpgs, but they should try to make the iruniverse coherent before adding in it their favourites weapons)
- in all the explaining samples, the aliens are named Joe, Tom, Harry, and so on..
(Fortunately, not in the stories)
Currently, my generic space opera game of choice is Shatterzone.
Post originally by Kid Twist at 2005-03-07 07:17:58
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I've got a friend who really loves the Battlelords setting, and while I liked playing the game with him, it was solely because he had memorized the game to the point where I didn't need to read the books. I understand SSDC is writing new books now, but so far, they have all been recycled from Larry Sims' writing, and Larry Sims had a nasty habit of using tons of exclamation points and enjoying lots and lots of statistics. Reading the books made me wince.
Battlelords is indeed a good game if you want to shoot stuff. However, even if all you want to do is shoot stuff, there's still a lot you need to wade through to do that.
Post originally by Matt Drake at 2005-03-07 09:07:59
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I could not possibly disagree. The game is chock full of cool options, loaded with killer firearms and sweet armor, and possibly the most juvenile game book I have ever read (I abstained from The Game That Shall Not Be Named).
However, even with the writing apparently targeting ninth-graders, I found the game to be quite interesting, with surprising depth in the options for players. I have not played Shatterzone, though I may go look it up now that you mention it.
Post originally by Dan Davenport at 2005-03-07 09:22:56
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Nice review, Matt!
As to Shatterzone: having played it, I'd have to say that it's a lot less gung-ho than Battlelords. (Not that that's saying very much. ) Perhaps it was due to the fact that the system is toned-down TORG, our group was really surprised just how much it HURTS to get shot in Shatterzone. So, avoiding fights tends to be a good thing whenever possible -- not exactly the Battlelords mindset.
Post originally by A.E. Troubio at 2005-03-07 10:11:35
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Battlelords is definitely up there in the "Guilty Pleasure" list of games. Though looking to it for space opera is a bit misguided. Maybe space opera as written by Slayer or Ministry. While the game is derivative, stat-happy, and written by folks that are happy using gaming as a vehicle to 'blow stuff up real good', it wears its intentions on its sleeve. You can't fault a game that appeals to the inner ninth-grader and makes no bones about it.
Post originally by Zombi Bobb at 2005-03-07 21:53:46
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*Sigh* Where to start...
I find it funny that I was indoctrinated into roleplaying with BattleLords in the Ninth grade. Yes, this game is great for blowing stuff up and yes the writing is not the very best it could be, but to read this game as only that is to only get a shallow idea of its potential.
The generic-ness of the setting and races, coupled with the deadliness of the combat system (yes, you can armor up but good and not have combat be so deadly for you), allow the players to concentrate on what I think is a brilliant roleplaying dynamic. That of inter-party conflict.
Yes, this isn't new. However, when BattleLords first came out games were starting to explore this more purposefully, but alot of those still allowed individual characters to accomplish alot because they were usually "cinematic", meaning an individual could pull off quite amazing feats.
In BattleLords, making a starting character, you have weak weapons, crappy armor, make little money for the work you do and are forced into a squad with people you hate. The key component to alot of the races is that they have some sort of problem with someone else. These hatreds are all stereotypes of each other, whether they are true or not (and makes for wonderful commentary on modern day race relations), and focus a roleplaying session on the party interaction. The system does not allow for individual heroes (the biggest hero in the game is Madd Mike who started up a mercenary brocure after sole-surviving a huge massacre in which the press leaves out that he did so by hiding under the bodies of his fallen teammates), so the side with the best tactics will win the day. To execute good tactics the party has to overcome their biases and work together. Most often they end up screwing each other over for one reason or another (national pride, personal vendetta, fragging the crappy CO).
So that is how I see BattleLords. I hope someone out there sees something better than just "I gets to blow stuff up real good", not that it's not good for that too.
Post originally by Peers at 2005-03-08 11:41:03
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Having met Larry Sims at a convention (and having let him talk me into picking up Battlelords and a copy of Galactic underground)... the writing is definately indicative of the man, but also of the game.
That being said, Battlelords occupied my 'favorite game' title for a long time, a farther-out Shadowrun/Cyberpunk with aliens, bigger guns, and the option to actually make non-combat characters if you wanted to... scientists, etc. Of course, they crumple horribly as soon as someone throws a rock, but...
Post originally by Roy Morgan at 2005-03-09 00:03:32
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"I could not possibly disagree. The game is chock full of cool options, loaded with killer firearms and sweet armor, and possibly the most juvenile game book I have ever read"
Gotta back you there, Matt. As impressive as the game looked from a skim-through, it disappoints on depth and roleplaying. Though blowing stuff up after a bad night at work is still good fun if you can find the right group...
"(I abstained from The Game That Shall Not Be Named)."
Dungeons & Death Stars... ahem, Star Wars D20 with the Arms and Equipment Guide?
"However, even with the writing apparently targeting ninth-graders, I found the game to be quite interesting, with surprising depth in the options for players. I have not played Shatterzone, though I may go look it up now that you mention it."
Shatterzone is worth having, though the original books are getting hard to find. Though there's a PDF of the Shatterzone Universe Guide available at RPGNow, with a D6 conversion guide in the back if you prefer a simpler system.
"As to Shatterzone: having played it, I'd have to say that it's a lot less gung-ho than Battlelords. (Not that that's saying very much. )"
Very true, that. Though between offbeat characters and the mayhem they could get into, I've said more than once that a Star Wars RPG group I ran for a while would have been a better Shatterzone group. Havoc seemed to follow them around like their own starship's ion trail.
"Perhaps it was due to the fact that the system is toned-down TORG, our group was really surprised just how much it HURTS to get shot in Shatterzone. So, avoiding fights tends to be a good thing whenever possible -- not exactly the Battlelords mindset. "
Yup. The game system later got its own life as Masterbook, but didn't survive more than a few years, despite a few good games with the Masterbook label on them. But yes, it's very easy to get hurt in Shatterzone OR Masterbook. Either have decent combat skills, or stay out of fights! Of course, that's not always possible, especially if a job you take sends you into danger. And how many DON'T?
And Battlelords has that trait in common with Shatterzone. It takes it to a higher extreme, but the principle is the same: wade in blasting, the powers that be will sort 'em out. At the right time and in the right place, that can still be a recipe for a good game.
) Perhaps it was due to the fact that the system is toned-down TORG, our group was really surprised just how much it HURTS to get shot in Shatterzone. So, avoiding fights tends to be a good thing whenever possible -- not exactly the Battlelords mindset. 
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