Post originally by Eldaryn at 2005-04-18 07:53:01
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With all due respect to it, in my experience GURPS Dragons is not the high point of the GURPS system. Most of the dragons seem rather underpowered, and at the same time they're still powerful enough that the GURPS system starts to break down.
Post originally by cjh at 2005-04-18 08:01:09
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Thanks for that analysis but it doesn't have a wit to do with the question that I posed.
Eldaryn wrote:
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With all due respect to it, in my experience GURPS Dragons is not the high point of the GURPS system. Most of the dragons seem rather underpowered, and at the same time they're still powerful enough that the GURPS system starts to break down.
Post originally by James A Beggs at 2005-04-18 09:59:40
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I cannot answer as per GURPS Dragons, as I've never played it. Nor have I played GURPS in some time.
I can tell you, however, how this game compares to GURPS overall (albeit at an earlier edition), to give you something to consider.
Essentially, GURPS, HERO, and other generic/universal systems share the same strength, that they can do just about anything. In reference to your earlier question, what can this game do that GURPS Dragons can't? You could ask the same question regarding HERO, or any other universal game system.
A genre-specific game can rarely, if ever, do something that a generic system can, period, due to the fact that the generic system was engineered to do, well, anything.
The question that should be asked, therefore, is why play this game than GURPS? Again, this is a question of whether or not ANY genre-specific game system is an experience worth playing compared to a generic one.
For many, the answer is purely that the genre-specific games provide a better experience for said genre, albeit at the cost of being unable to play other genres. Not everyone agrees with this, but some do.
In specific, however, where Fireborn shines compared to, say, GURPS, is that it is a lightning fast cinematic experience that, frankly, GURPS cannot emulate as well. I've played both, and for cinematic play Fireborn clearly has the advantage.
Combat is more smooth and streamlined, while still maintaining the crunch that is often missing in games like Feng Shui.
Noncombat is also as easily resolved. Now, the difference isn't quite as pronounced, as skill usage in GURPS for non combat purposes was also not too terribly difficult.
Furthermore, the game scales well as far as playing powerful dragons instead of "puny" humans. Now, here I will admit to ignorance, as I haven't played GURPS Dragons, but going from the response from the earlier respondant to your post, it would seem that GURPS doesn't handle that level of scaling for PCs as well.
In the end, really, its a matter of taste. I've always preferred genre-specific games over generic, universal games. Regardless, I see the attraction of having one universal game system rather than a number of non-universal ones. However, I can say with a degree of certainty that combat flows more cinematically and more fluidly than GURPS.
Post originally by Zach21035 at 2005-04-18 11:30:34
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Aside from the generic problems with scaling GURPS to high power levels, Fireborn has an innate advantage over GURPS. Namely, the system is built around the setting rather than tacked on, and the system works exceedingly well for it's purpose. This issue isn't what it can do that GURPS Dragons can't - GURPS basically CAN do anything. The issue is that it does it BETTER than GURPS, and doesn't require heaps of modification to get it close to what it's intended to do.
What it does is provide highly cinematic combat (not quite Exalted, but close), lots of 'kewl powerz' for the dragons, and a really neat magic system. Integrating the latter two into GURPS requires a lot of houseruling or at the very least twisting of advantages and disadvantages. Integrating the former into GURPS is, at best, imperfect.
The tempo of battle is probably where the game is most different from GURPS. A single turn in Fireborn will consist of your character beating the hell out of two or three extras, being attacked, counterattacking, sizing up the Big Bad, and probably using some of his cool powers. A single turn in GURPS will consist of your character aiming. An extremely important distinction in a combat-heavy, cinematic game, and in this regard, Fireborn pulls it off, IMO, even better than most highly cinematic games, Exalted included.
Basically, GURPS is gritty detective story and Fireborn is a John Woo movie. Put even a high-end GURPS character into most of the situations Fireborn characters stroll through without breaking a sweat, and he'll most likely die.
For the record, I'm a big GURPS fan - when it's being used for Transhuman Space, or Cyberpunk, or low-key fantasy, or modern military games. The more the setting deviates from realism, the more GURPS breaks down.
Post originally by cjh at 2005-04-18 11:44:19
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Actually you folks should probably look at the 4e version of GURPS instead of basing your assumption on the previous edition(s). 4e doesn't have the high power level scaling issues that the previous editions had. And GURPS is not all grit either.
Post originally by Yamo at 2005-04-18 12:01:19
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Just in case you guys were not aware, there are people out there in the real world who believe, honestly believe, that they are dragons in human form. They even have a whole online community. For example: http://www.weyr.org/~raki/drp.html
They're sad, sad sacks of crazy, true, just like the people who think they're reincarnated elves or anime characters, but...are they the deliberate target audience of Fireborn? The notion is strange to say the least, but the similarities are pretty strong.
Post originally by Mighty Fast Pig at 2005-04-18 12:05:48
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If you wanted to run a wire-fu/wuxia type game, how easy would it be to adapt the system to a setting where powers come from chi, psionics, Matrix awareness, etc?
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