Post originally by Ravil at 2005-06-20 01:25:15
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You know, I could have sworn that I had already bought this book a couple of years back.
Maybe I'm getting jaded, but releasing a second Forgotten Realms book on the exact same topic as a previous one tells me that either they're running out of ideas or are just praying that their consumer base has collectively developed selective memory loss. Which means either they're retarded or they think we are. But I don't particularly like the prospects of either of those thoughts.
Yes, we know that the Realms are absolutely teeming with evil. They're bad. Bad bad bad. So bad that Wizards of the Coast apparently has to pad the annual release lineup with books reinforcing just how bad the Realms truly are. And yeah, they're trying to put a shiny coat on this one by saying that it's a resource for everyone who wants to PLAY a villain in the Realms, but judging from your review there doesn't seem to be much here that wasn't in either "Lords of Darkness" or "Book of Vile Darkness." New evil races? New evil crunchy bits? A rundown of *gasp* evil organizations? Sample villains? We've seen this zombie before, folks, and while it may be getting prettier (and, as it's hardcover, pricier too!) it still shambles the same familiar shamble.
Judging from this review (whether that's wise or not), "Champions of Ruin" reeks of a bad attempt to separate the apparently-amnesic consumer from his or her money. I'm sure the book itself is shiny and that lots of effort went into it, but...but c'mon Wizards! We already know the Realms are bad! You sold us a couple of books saying so! If you can't give a book a genuine new angle, then what's the point of making it just to retread ground that, let's face it, isn't even that old? Y'all do what you want (you will anyway), but you ought to think hard before rewarding something like this with your purchasing power.
Post originally by Asmodai at 2005-06-20 05:51:17
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Well if it has enough content to justify the purchase I'm happy.
Having multiple books on the same topic isn't a big deal (how many Chrome books were there for CP2020?) as long as each book has enough unique content to justify a purchase.
I'm curious: how much overlap is there between Champions of Ruin and Lords of Darkness?
Also, which would be the better purchase for a DM looking to add some fun adversaries into a FR game?
Post originally by Matt Drake at 2005-06-20 06:17:43
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To be honest, I didn't even know about the Lords of Darkness book until you mentioned it and I looked it up at the Wizards website. I don't know how many feats/skills/spells/other character crunch is in that book. There may be a ton, I don't know. But there is a ton in Champions of Ruin.
Also, the bad guys here are specific to the Realms. They could be extracted if you change some names, but they are intended to be Realms bad guys. The Zhentarim, for example, are not generic evil baddies. Lords of Darkness is not a Realms-specific product.
The Lords of Darkness book is primarily about aberrations. Regular old human villains are not the focus. They're not enitrely in Champions of Ruin, either, but the book does provide lots of ways to make a regular, run-of-the-mill mortal villain who can plague the PCs (or be the PCs) on a regular basis.
Sure, there are some new bad guys in Lords of Darkness, and some new bad guys in Champions of Ruin. But half of Champions of Ruin is character options, with the second half all about bad guys who could be allied with other bad guys. Lords of Darkness is ALL about bad guys, and different bad guys at that.
There is almost no overlap. These books may both have a similar focus - the dark side - but their focus and content are not the same. I hate book churn as much as anyone else, but it sounds to me like you might just be wanting to put Wizards in the chapter on 'Evil Organizations.' They like to make money - like most companies - and they may have overcharged for this book a little, but they're not villains.
Post originally by Asmodai at 2005-06-20 06:33:18
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"Also, the bad guys here are specific to the Realms. They could be extracted if you change some names, but they are intended to be Realms bad guys. The Zhentarim, for example, are not generic evil baddies. Lords of Darkness is not a Realms-specific product.
The Lords of Darkness book is primarily about aberrations."
Lords of Madness is the book you're thinking of.
Lords of Darkness is a FR specific product about the evil organizations of Faerun.
I suggest buying the Book of Vile Darkness instead
Post originally by No2 at 2005-06-20 09:20:35
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I was disappointed with this book. It seemed a much tamer and classical equivalent of the Book of Vile Darkness, yet too similar to it to have any added value on its own.
Post originally by Ravil at 2005-06-20 09:27:23
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Heh, no worries. And here's the thing: I realize that Wizards is all about the profit-motive, and if gamers want to buy a second book on all of the bad things going bump in the night in Faerun, then that's their prerogative. More power to 'em. Wizards certainly aren't villains for providing a product that gamers want. I'm just annoyed that this book seems to be re-treading the exact ground that was already covered only a couple of years ago. Given how much we pay for these books, the possibility of paying for pretty much the same thing twice makes me grind my teeth.
But if the market is out there and gamers are demanding "Lords of Darkness II", then Wizards would be negligent not to make it. Which makes me wonder just how many gamers were demanding this re-hash.
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