[RPG]: Truth & Justice, reviewed by Rawhide (3/4)

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/11/11446.phtml

Mitch Yeager's Summary:

Truth & Justice is rules-light superhero game that allows for nearly any concept under the sun. While it may be too fluffly for some players, groups able to work with less mechanical guidance should find it fast and fun.

Go to the full review for more information.

[Tim Gray]

Mitch, thanks for taking the time to tell us about T&J.

I get the impression you're more comfortable with a crunchier system for supers - is that right? The way to think of T&J is that it starts more from the comics end, whereas most supers games start more from the game end. It would work well for free-wheeling stuff like Morrison's JLA.

To clarify for readers who don't know the game: stuff that ordinary people might have is handled as Qualities. So attributes, skills, occupations, personality traits, relationships... Powers are kind of like a second tier of Qualities. When creating a character you get a certain number of each. (And if you want you can take the Intense Training power, which converts into extra Quality ranks for super-skilled normals.)

"Most of the book's prose is taken up analyzing just what the superhero genre is and explaining how to use the genre's conventions to build a satisfying rpg." There's plenty of that in there, but there's also plenty on character creation and gameplay.

There have been a few threads about T&J on Open, including this one.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by Tim Gray

I get the impression you're more comfortable with a crunchier system for supers - is that right? The way to think of T&J is that it starts more from the comics end, whereas most supers games start more from the game end. It would work well for free-wheeling stuff like Morrison's JLA.

Actually no I don't like crunchier games for supers. I think T&J may be among the best supers games out and I hope that comes through in both my ratings and my prose.

But I understand crunchier games and the people who play them. As great as I think T&J is it's a low-crunch game that requires some cooperation and trust among GM and all players to work. A lot of people will hate that and I wanted to warn them. I can't eliminate my own biases but I want to make sure my reviews give enough information for people who like different games than me to still get something out of them.

I also feel the game may be a little too light on rules-stuff. Perhaps more examples on how to handle the wild things that will come up from the crazy combination of action and investigation that makes up superhero comics would have helped. I fear many groups will find some inconsistency in how their characters can affect the world in play. A really good GM could avoid this -- I don't think a typical one will.

But that said, it's a trade-off. For me the flexibility and ease is worth it since an rpg is after all supposed to be a Game. Games are fun and preferrably easy to get in to. Too many rpgs are a hobby like modeling. They may be fun but only because you enjoy the work.

That said I think your other comments are right on and will help people know if they want to buy this game or not.

[chadu]

Ask for an ye shall receive:

Here's the bare-bones list of the Truth & justice Bibliography. In the actual book, you'll get a few comments of mine on each entry.

The 4400 (2004)
Adventure!, by Andrew Bates, Bruce Baugh, et al. (White Wolf)
Animal Man [Grant Morrison run]. (DC Comics)
The Authority [Warren Ellis run]. (DC/Wildstorm)
Batman (1989), and sequels. (Warner Brothers)
Batman: the Animated Series. (Warner Brothers)
Batman Begins (2005).
Batman Beyond. (Warner Brothers)
Batman: the Movie (1966).
The Batman/Superman Movie ["Worldʹs Finest"]. (Warner Brothers)
Capes, by Anthony Lower-Basch. (muse of Fire)
Castle Falkenstein: High Adventure in the Steam Age, by Michael Pondsmith. (R. Talsorian Games)
The Code and the Code 2, by Jared Sorensen. (Memento Mori)
Comic Book Nation: The Transformation of Youth Culture in America, by Bradford W. Wright.
The Dark Knight Returns. (DC Comics) [also see Batman: Year One]. Highly recommended.
darkpages, by Jared Sorensen. (Memento Mori)
Dr. Blink, Superhero Shrink, by John Kovalic and Christopher Jones. (Dork Storm Press)
Doom Patrol [Grant Morrison run]. (DC Comics; Vertigo)
Elementals [Willingham run]. (Comico)
Firestarter, by Stephen King.
Gladiator, by Philip Wylie.
Global Frequency. (DC/Wildstorm)
Green Lantern/Green Arrow. (DC Comics)
Hearts and Souls, by Tim Kirk.
How to Read Superhero Comics and Why, by Geoff Klock.
The Incredibles. (Disney/Pixar)
Invincible, by Robert Kirkman. (Image)
Jumper, by Steven Gould.
The Justice League of America [aka JLA; Grant Morrison run]. (DC Comics)
Justice League (beginning in 2001) cartoons. (Warner Brothers)
Kurt Busiekʹs Astro City. (DC/Wildstorm/Homage)
Mage: the Hero Discovered and Mage: the Hero Defined. (Comico and Image)
Marvel Super Heroes Advanced Set, by Jeff Grubb, Steve Winter, et al. (TSR)
The Matrix (and sequels). (Warner Brothers)
Miracleman (aka Marvelman), by Alan Moore. (Eclipse)
Nobilis, by R. Sean Borgstrom. (Hogshead Games/Guardians of Order)
Noble Causes, by Jay Faerber. (Image)
Over the Edge: The Role-Playing Game of Surreal Danger, by Jonathan Tweet with Robin D. Laws. (Atlas Games)
Planetary, by Warren Ellis. (DC/Wildstorm)
The Power Company. (DC Comics)
P.S. 238, by Aaron Williams. (Henchman Publishing/Dork Storm Press)
RISUS, by S. John Ross. (Cumberland Games)
Simply Superhuman!, by Bob Portnell and Guy McLimore. (Microtactix; currently unpublished)
Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2. (Sony)
Starman. (DC Comics)
Superman (beginning in 1941) cartoons. (Max Fleischer)
Superman (1978), and sequels. (Warner Brothers)
Storyboard, by Matthew C. Gaston and Rich Taylor. (Magus Creative Games)
Ultra: Seven Days, by the Luna Brothers. (Image)
Unbreakable. (Touchstone)
Unknown Armies: A Roleplaying Game of Power and Consequences, Second Edition, by Greg Stolze & John Tynes. (Atlas Games)
V for Vendetta. (DC Comics) [Also see Swamp Thing, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Promethea, Tom Strong, et cetera.]
The Venture Brothers. (Noodlesoup Productions/Astrobase Go!/Cartoon Network)
Villains & Vigilantes, by Jeff Dee and Jack Herman. (Fantasy Games Unlimited)
Watchmen. (DC Comics) Alan Moore.
X-Men and X-Men United. (20th Century Fox)

Enjoy!

CU

[chadu]

Originally Posted by Rawhide

Actually no I don't like crunchier games for supers. I think T&J may be among the best supers games out and I hope that comes through in both my ratings and my prose.

Thank you for the review, Mitch! Much appreciated!

CU

[MalteseChangeling]

Mitch,

You wrote:

While the PDQ system is very simplistic there are people who will appreciate its speed and simplicity. Creating a character shouldn't take more than 5 minutes no matter how complex an idea the character is based on. The rules won't keep powergamers in check but I'm not sure anyone would get much out of powergaming in the PDQ rules. There's a lack of mechanical guidance for how to be good at specific kinds of things but at the same time there's a lack of mechanical limitations. Anything you can imagine, you can make. Similarly everyone exists at the same power level. This is both good as it encourages batman and Superman to be on the same team and weird because it means batman and Superman can take out the same villains and overcome the same problems.

Based on the extant tradition of superhero RPGs, I can see where you're coming from in this last statement. But, as I think you also recognize, this is actually one of T&J's best features. In most superhero RPGs, if I wanted to have the Justice Society as a PC group, well, the guys playing the Spectre, Dr. Fate, and Green Lantern would have to receive many more build points than the guys playing the Sandman, Wildcat, and the Atom. For lots of people, that's not a problem. But it does tend to mean that the high point total PCs are more effective in the game environment. Chad takes, as Tim suggested, a comics-based approach: in the actual pages of the comics, Batman and Superman can take on the same villains. The Atom can be as mechanically powerful as the Spectre--i.e., he will contribute as much to resolving in-game conflict as Jim Corrigan's ghost.

I think this is a pretty significant shift in super gaming.

Best,

Rob

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by MalteseChangeling

Mitch,

You wrote:

This is both good as it encourages batman and Superman to be on the same team and weird because it means batman and Superman can take out the same villains and overcome the same problems.

Based on the extant tradition of superhero RPGs, I can see where you're coming from in this last statement. But, as I think you also recognize, this is actually one of T&J's best features. [snip]

I think this is a pretty significant shift in super gaming.

Best,

Rob

I agree it is quite a switch. In general I think it may be a good thing for a lot of groups. But groups who already have a supers rpg they love need to be warned this one is going to act different with a lot of character types.

For supers in particular you just can't think about the logic of what's going on too much. I think T&J is going to be great for people who have had logic enforced on their supers campaigns by game mechanics and find that enforced logic intrusive. But anyone who has gotten used to a supers world as described by HERO, Mutants and Masterminds, GURPS Supers or even V&V is going to discover that play style is impossible in T&J.

Now really what that means is that T&J is more like comics and less like other superhero games. And that's great unless you really want the supers game style you're used to.

In many ways its like D&D vs fantasy stories. D&D is great for creating D&D games. It does that better than any other game out there. But D&D games have almost nothing to do with the fantasy that inspired them. I know a lot of people who like playing D&D better than playing something that's closer to real fantasy.

And again I just want to try to put enough information in my reviews that even people who have different game preferences get something useful out of them.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by chadu

Thank you for the review, Mitch! Much appreciated!

CU

You are most welcome. I plan on combing through the pdf market and finding things that deserve more attention than they've gotten and T&J was at the top of the list.

I note you already have a free supplement set up and that's great. Are you planning further T&J books? Given your work with CiaB I'd think more campaign ideas would be a natural at the very least. As well as books of premade villains and heros, adventures and maybe sub-genre books.

[chadu]

Originally Posted by Rawhide

You are most welcome. I plan on combing through the pdf market and finding things that deserve more attention than they've gotten and T&J was at the top of the list.

I think this is a great idea, and not just because I benefitted directly. Kudos!

Originally Posted by Rawhide

I note you already have a free supplement set up and that's great. Are you planning further T&J books?

Oh, yes.

Yes, indeedy.

However, I need to overcome a few hurdles: sell 5 more copies to cover the last of T&J's production costs (art, editing, ads; these costs do not include paying myself for writing and layout yet), and sell "enough" copies so that I have funds to pay for artists and writers on supplements.

I haven't done formal projections yet on how many copies I'll need, but I have been toying with various supplement ideas. . . and which one I pick to do depends on what the purchasers of the game actually want. So, the last element needed is substantial feedback from customers.


CU

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by chadu

I haven't done formal projections yet on how many copies I'll need, but I have been toying with various supplement ideas. . . and which one I pick to do depends on what the purchasers of the game actually want. So, the last element needed is substantial feedback from customers.
CU

Okay let me take off my reviewer hat and put on my consumer hat since you're being so kind as to respond to questions in this thread. (And I noticed you put up the bibliography which I think was a good move and very responsive.)

What I think T&J needs more than anything else is a city setting complete with local heros, villains and weirdness. It should include a lot of adventure ideas and multiple campaign suggestions just like in T&J itself. Something full or cool ideas that remind us of our favorite comics but aren't a direct rip off with the names changed. Something so new and interesting people will want to use it even if playing a different supers rpg.

If that was popular you could start a whole world gazateer.