Everything in the game is built around the central concept of laying down your life and living on the edge. If you’re the type who likes to weigh his options and take risks, who likes a mix of tactics and gambling, this system should work well for you.
Of course the big problem is waiting for the bloody roulette wheel to stop spinning. Even if dice end up on the floor they stop pretty quickly.
And then when the wheel stops, and here's the twist in the sobriety, everyone loses. At least that's what happened in the playtest.
The game might actually be playable with dice but the roulette wheel is just a silly gimmick. Just because it generates random numbers doesn't mean you should use it. What next? A game that can only be played by releasing a roach onto a numbered peg board? By actually playing Russian Roulette - the survivor narrates, I guess?
Of course the big problem is waiting for the bloody roulette wheel to stop spinning. Even if dice end up on the floor they stop pretty quickly.
And then when the wheel stops, and here's the twist in the sobriety, everyone loses. At least that's what happened in the playtest.
The game might actually be playable with dice but the roulette wheel is just a silly gimmick. Just because it generates random numbers doesn't mean you should use it. What next? A game that can only be played by releasing a roach onto a numbered peg board? By actually playing Russian Roulette - the survivor narrates, I guess?
Besides, not everyone has a roulette wheel at home. And there's also people like myself that really hate gambling, and wouldn't touch with a 6m pike a game that goes this fare in being inspired by it.
Dude, you don't have to use a wheel. There is an easy dice option included which mimics the wheel odds very closely. But it does loose a little flavor if you go with them instead of the wheel. And as far as everyone loosing, in my experience that's because people don't know how to cover their bets very well. The method of betting doesn't take that long to pick up.
And I don't understand the gambling objection. Every card or dice or coin flip based system in use is gambling. Hell I'm just interested to see someone use an unusual randomizer.
What next? A game that can only be played by releasing a roach onto a numbered peg board?
Hell I'd play that! Preferably with the madagascan hissing cockroach (Gromphadorhina Portentosa) than the boring, smelly, and pestulent Blatta Orientalis or Blatta Americana.
You're so right though, you could not feasibly play a game that purports to be a fast-paced all-action game with a roulette wheel that can take as long as twenty or thirty seconds to stop spinning. Sure it lets the tension build up nicely but... well, how often are you going to need to spin that wheel to resolve for example a combat situation? Once? Twice? Twenty times?
As for the betting thing, there are arguments for and against it. Samachadrael's own statement that you 'have to know how to cover your bets' points out one such argument against it: to play well and effectively, you have to learn how to play roulette. People who did learn this skill could easily be drawn into gambling as a way of making money from their skills. But to be honest, I don't give a monkeys about gambling myself, I don't think it's evil (although it can be foolish) I'm just pointing out what the overimaginative panic-mongering pressure groups would say. My own view is simply that it is an interesting idea, but would take too long to be efficient for what is apparently supposed to be a fast-paced game.
First, there is an alternative way using d6s. This has already been mentioned. I think the game loses it's atmosphere (and when's the last time you heard of a "generic" game having atmosphere?) when you use it, but it does it's job.
Secondly, what you lose in speed (which isn't much), you gain in suspense. Really, it helps if you spin the wheel when it's really important, narrating the fallout when it's all said and done. (And the chip currency does a nice job in limiting just how far victory narrations can go, down to the last chip. I'm more inclined to worry about the bookkeeping aspects of chip-flow, but I think it's an interesting variation for those who like "crunch" in their games, a break from the standard focus of playing the stats.
Thirdly, and this is a rant and I apologize in advance, but if anyone ever wanted evidence that gamers are, indeed, a "superstitious and cowardly lot," these responses would give them all the ammunition they'd need. I personally cannot imagine any other game I'd use to emulate Tarantino/Guy Ritchie "heist" films, and some of the alternatives suggested in Fastlane put a nice spin on other, more standard game tropes.
I'm a big fan of this game, and I should probably get over my hang-up about playing with a roulette wheel and mat and just play/GM the damn game. But I really think this game is a great example of just exactly what The Forge is useful for, right along side Dogs in the Vineyard, Sorcerer, Burning Wheel, etc. Relax your fears for $12 ($6 in pdf) and give it a try, especially if you like crunchier games and want to give narration a try, but want sensible limits on it's impact.
Thirdly, and this is a rant and I apologize in advance, but if anyone ever wanted evidence that gamers are, indeed, a "superstitious and cowardly lot," these responses would give them all the ammunition they'd need.
Or, for another way of looking at it, Gamers are very picky about the games they play. I don't think there's anything superstitious and certainly nothing cowardly about being circumspect. I mean, I have shelves full of games that I bought because I wanted to try something new, and I do like to try games with their own systems, but many of them have been wasted as a result of me or my players not liking the system. Nowadays, there's a limit to what I'll try. Let's face it there are a good many utterly horrible systems out there, I'm not saying that this one is bad, it might be great. Ever seen Star Children? A great, original concept that I loved crippled by a god-awful system that I hated. The thing is, I could use that setting with a different system, and I keep hold of the game in case I want to do so. New WoD would suit it very well I think. This system on the other hand has no base setting, just the rules, so if I don't like those rules the money is entirely wasted, not just partially.
My particular style of GM'ing is to either neglect die rolling entirely and go for a chatty atmosphere, maybe even going so far as to run a diceless system such as Nobilis, or to go for fast-paced action games like Feng Shui. I don't see a roulette wheel fitting into either very well, and also these are quite expensive compared to a few extra dice, which I probably wouldn't need and would use for other games anyway. I buy a roulette wheel for this game, and if I don't get around to running it then that money is wasted, and the wheel sits there gathering dust. I agree that it would be very atmospheric and suspenseful for a gangster or film noir style campaign though. On the other hand, I'd still like to know how many times you'd be expected to spin the roulette wheel during a sample combat. Is there any chance of a quick potted example, sans-important-rules, just to show how many times you'd be expected to spin that wheel thar? I mean is it used to determine initiative, do you have to spin it once per attack, again to dodge, whatever? I could see it working OK if everyone used a single spin of the wheel for their action, so that an entire round could be done on one spin, but by any other method it strikes me that you'd spend a lot of time watching that little ball go round when you could be role playing. I just know I'd be sick of it by the third attack 'roll'
So who would this game appeal to? Someone who already has a roulette wheel, who likes playing roulette and understands how to bet properly, who wants a bit of noir-esque atmosphere in the game, and who is a roleplayer, or of course someone who doesn't mind all the necessary time, effort and money to obtain all these things. That's a much narrower bracket of the demographic than 'a roleplayer who has some dice' or 'a roleplayer who can get his hands on a deck of cards' or even 'a roleplayer with a bunch of glass beads to use as tokens'. With most systems, you can pick up the book, read it through in a couple of hours, and be ready for at least a simple playtest shortly afterwards.
And yep, noticed that there was an optional D6 system included thanks. I was merely commenting on the main system, which presumably is the suggested one. None of this refutes the existence of an alternative, I'm just trying to get an idea of how efficient, playable and realistic the game mechanic is.
You don't need to spin the wheel many times in a combat situation. Once is enough, usually, so those seconds of tension are much better invested than the 15-30 minutes it usually takes to kill a kobold.
Roulette wheels can be bought cheap - childrens' toys - or used. I got mine for about $1.50 - and it even came with a board game with heaps of monopoly money
I was skeptical about the roulette wheel before I read the game - not anymore, though.
That sounds more workable then. I still think that a basic setting would really perk up the appeal of the game though, especially if tied into gambling and the whole film noir ethic. Hmm, maybe you could include some kind of 'modern magic' based around, I dunno, mystical gambling and careful manipulation of personal luck. I have a couple of ideas about that which could be interesting as a setting. Since there haven't been many RPG's based in that kind of genre (I can't think of more than one) it could turn out to be a real boon.
You were very lucky to get a roulette wheel that cheaply. I've seen them for about $25 - $30 in the UK (so about £15) but you might get one cheaper if you hunt around the bargain bookshops like the Works and Booksale (a quick tip there for people considering this game).
Well, in spite of my cowardly and superstitious nature, I don't need to be shamed into trying the game as I'd already given the game a go. That's what my comments were based on.
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