A fantasy setting book that mis-spells the word \"dwarf\". The good ideas are not just few and far between, they're kept further apart by terrible editing.
In the interest of not seeing a good man's name sullied about the internet, I must jump in to say that Evan Sass is innocent of the accusations thrown at his feet in this review. What the esteemed reader missed in his review of this book is an inside view to the internal processes involved with bringing a book to print through the filter of Games Workshop-owned IP. Evan is not responsible for content that was not passed by him as part of the normal process of developing this book, such as additional material added by Games Workshop or Black Industries employees during later stages of approvals. Material added or adjusted in layout or in the proofs stage (which do not pass through any Green Ronin proofers or editors) are a similar circumstance.
Just as it is too easy to credit an author with the good work that appears in a book without thought or recognition to the processes of development and edition that go to improving any writer's turnover, so it is too easy to blame a single person for the errors and inaccuracies that appear as the result of the work of a team (or several teams) of people.
Of course, the reviewer can not be expected to know this, and simply looks at the credits in the book to assign blame. That is understandable. Evan Sass is the credited editor. However, because of the bitter condemnation that has been leveled at him personally and by name over errors that were not actually his responsibility, I feel I must step up and defend his honor before this incorrect conclusion degenerate into an undeserved and lasting slander against his good name and abilities.
Re: [RPG]: Sigmar's Heirs, reviewed by mortmere (2/3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wljohnso
Perhaps the publisher should do a better job publishing its IP if it is not the author's fault... That is hardly a defence against a bad review.
We're not denying the errors appear in the product. If the reviewer wishes to blame Green Ronin and Black Industries as companies for errors that appear in the product, there would be no objection. I'm merely pointing out that repeatedly calling out one person by name as responsible for the errors is inaccurate, and for the purposes of establishing the quality of the product, unnecessary.
Re: [RPG]: Sigmar's Heirs, reviewed by mortmere (2/3)
As you say in your first post though Nikchick:
Quote:
Of course, the reviewer can not be expected to know this, and simply looks at the credits in the book to assign blame. That is understandable. Evan Sass is the credited editor.
The reviewer is no party to any of the information you refer to as the process of the production of this (or any other) sourcebook.
I appreciate you're attempting to clarify where the burden of responsability lies for such a shoddily produced piece of work but if even the credits page can't get the production information right then what hope for the rest of book?
My point is that whilst a lot of what is said in the review could be considered to be singling out an individual that is not the reviewer's fault if he only has the information in the book to go from. If what you say is true then Evan Sass should demand his name be removed from future printings of the product for the sheer sake of his reputation.
__________________ We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.
- George Bernard Shaw
Re: [RPG]: Sigmar's Heirs, reviewed by mortmere (2/3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonA
My point is that whilst a lot of what is said in the review could be considered to be singling out an individual that is not the reviewer's fault if he only has the information in the book to go from.
Understood. I'm not casting blame, merely trying to correct the record as best we can at this stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonA
If what you say is true then Evan Sass should demand his name be removed from future printings of the product for the sheer sake of his reputation.
Location: corner of Independence and Vlad the Impaler, by the pizza joint.
Posts: 1,566
Re: [RPG]: Sigmar's Heirs, reviewed by mortmere (2/3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikchick
If the reviewer wishes to blame Green Ronin and Black Industries as companies for errors that appear in the product, there would be no objection.
I'll do that then. Evan Sass is guilty of nothing more than working for companies that don't allow him the full overview and intervention to do a thorough job. I'm baffled by the glimpse that Nikchick has given us of the internal workings of BI - it seems that there was actually no one filling the role that most publishers tag with the title "editor", with predictable results.
__________________
Am Streit wie Ihr ihn kennt nehm' ich nicht Teil.
Re: [RPG]: Sigmar's Heirs, reviewed by mortmere (2/3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortmere
I'll do that then. Evan Sass is guilty of nothing more than working for companies that don't allow him the full overview and intervention to do a thorough job. I'm baffled by the glimpse that Nikchick has given us of the internal workings of BI - it seems that there was actually no one filling the role that most publishers tag with the title "editor", with predictable results.
Yes. Traditionally the buck stops at the Editor. For an editor to have his efforts undermined to such a detriment would have me running to the nearest computer to write out my resignation. Not very clever of Black Industries/Green Ronin. Still I suspect a large proportion of the blame also lies with Games Workshop and for that I must say "I am not surprised in the slightest."
__________________ We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.
- George Bernard Shaw
Re: [RPG]: Sigmar's Heirs, reviewed by mortmere (2/3)
Quote:
Also exhilarating is the River of Echoes. This is a three-hundred mile long river that flows beneath the mountains in the south, to Tilea (pseudo-Italy in this world's vaguely European continent). This is a new bit of Warhammer world fluff to me and it immediately made me want to know more, to read the story where it first appeared, to ride one of the trade barges that bring silks and rice up from Tilea into the Empire, bowing my head in fear and amazement as the river first passes beneath the rock, wondering who could have built it and when - the Dwarfs? the hated, semi-mythical Skaven? some race even more ancient and now forgotten?
The River is grandiose, weird and full of story potential: it's also badly botched. When I say that I "immediately" wanted to unfold its stories and plumb its potential, I have to add the caveat that this was only on page 95, when we learn that the river does indeed run underground for its whole course - which wasn't mentioned when it first appeared on page 6 (by the way, it's only one-hundred fifty miles long on the later page, having dribbled away half its length somewhere in the intervening chapters: but never mind). Not only has lousy, lazy editing held me up for nearly ninety pages in my quest for adventure, but the writing team themselves never seem to have realised what a great idea they have under their hands here.
I'm not sure, because I never could bring myself to buying the supplement, but I think that the River of Echoes was first mentioned in the WFRP1 adventure supplement "Death's Dark Shadow". So if you want to see some adventures using this river, you may want to try and find this supplement.
The River of Echoes was mentioned before in "Death's Dark Shadow". In 2236, the Tilean explorer Pasolini discovered a tunnel that connected the River Soll with the River Cristallo. He may have named the whole stretch (both rivers) as the River of Echoes, but I'd guess the name now more likely refers to the underground portion. The village of Kreutzhofen (detailed extensively in "Death's Dark Shadow") gets most of it's Tilean wine trade through the connection... I think it's safer than trying to bring wine up through the Yetzin valley.
There's a whole ruined city down there underneath the Vaults at the source of both rivers, but it's largely unexplored (both in print and the in-game history). As I recall, there's an open invitation to the GM in "Death's Dark Shadow" to use the ruins to stage their own dungeon crawls.
The Lichmaster sourcebook was also set pretty much on top of the same region. The Doomstones campaign also begins nearby in the Winter's Teeth pass.
(My current WFRP2 campaign is headed for the village of Kreutzhofen. Coincidence...? Hah!)
As for the Arcane College thing... that sounds very odd, since there are several very well-known arcane colleges outside of Altdorf, have been for centuries. In fact, when Emperor Magnus the Pious asked the elves to help repel the first incursion of Chaos, the capitol of the empire at that time was Nuln, and I'm pretty sure the Eldritch University of Nuln and the Elemental Colleges predate the Arcane Colleges in Altdorf. Hopefully the new Realms of Sorcery book will help clear that up.
The Gazetteers may be an update of the material that appeared in "Death on the Reik/River Life on the Empire"... which admittedly is only useful if your party is operating a river boat. And yes, we're still quite pissed that it got sunk during that whole Wittenstein thing.
The sewer map for Bogenhafen... oh lord, my old WFRP group spent the entire Enemy Within campaign carrying around that stupid three-legged goblin pelvis... got to be worth something to somebody, right?
Clearing the name of Evan Sass
Linear Mode
