Forget the First Edition Feel

[Christian]

I just can't take it any more, the "first edition feel" in scenarios. When I think 1E, my mind turns to the sense of wonder and flights of imagination I felt as I explored the World of Greyhawk, studied the "Leomund's Tiny Hut" articles in Dragon, and marvelled at miniatures.

Sadly, first edition feel in modules means role-play via the "one kicked in door at a time" style.

My regular group is getting ready to begin one hell of a hack fest series of modules and for the first time in our 15 year game group history, I am opting out. That's not the only reason, but it's an important one.

I guess I'd just rather play Mage Knight or a war game if I was after a tactical experience. Oh well. Maybe it's time to wait until they finish and then offer to run the style of game I am more interested in.

[Jason Hinds]

I understand how that feels. I came back from a few years' hiatus from gaming (and about 8 years from any kind of D&D-esque gaming) and after I got over over the "my 1st-level rogue just backstabbed a goblin!" euphoria, I was ready for the whole rpg-as-interactive fiction thing to start again. Mind you, goblin-killing is getting mighty fun, though... sometimes you need the obligatory action scene in a game to move the game along, even if it's only a random one because the DM is stalling for time.

[Sangrolu]

The problem for me with first edition feel is that most people who want to emulate it seem to want to do so with way different reference points than I do. Necromancer does an okay job, and are fairly creative, but I see some bad influences from 1e rubbing off on them... like White Plume Mountain and Tomb of Horrors. The former is possibly the most poorly justified adventures in the history of gaming and the later is the materhorn of character carnage. Not fun.

For me, the "first edition feel" is the epic adventures filled with mystery that sprang from the fertile imagination of my DM back then, as well as some immense epic adventures like GDQ 1-7. Ah, that was good stuff!

Not that I am totally against dungeon bashing. We play one occasionally on our off-nights. But wouldn't want to run a straight campaign of it. I need some plot development and some campaign evolution!

[Kim Walker]

I remember the real first edition feel. That's where you walked into fifteen empty 30' by 30' rooms and a sixteenth that contained 100 skeletons and a 1000gp gem stuffed into the eye socket of a bleached human skull.

I also seem to remember that Dragon Magazine, back in the mid 80's, ran a few dozen articles by Katherine Kerr about getting away from the "first edition feel".

[Kevin Mowery]

I love the Desert of Desolation series. Dungeons, travel, puzzles (some of which proved impossible for my players to figure out and resulted in me having to prod them along with idea rolls--"What's the one thing that you haven't done to the crystal pillar that you've done to EVERY OTHER THING IN THE MODULE?" "Attack it?" "Yes!").

Expedition to the Barrier Peaks was fun, although the first time I ran it, it was with homemade maps, since a guy in school gave me his photocopy of it, but had no maps and didn't have the pictures of the tech stuff, either. I ended up buying it later so I'd have it complete.

I've been playing in a bunch of "1st edition style" adventures of late, and I'm bored, bored, bored. They're all of the "you get hired to kill goblinoids so go get 'em" variety, except for a brief excursion into "you find a series of tunnels full of undead" and one adventure that was "you get told by a powerful being's ghost to go avenge its death by killing some humanoids."

I think we should try to figure out what the 3rd edition style should be.

[Jason Hinds]

3rd edition feel?


I assume we're not talking "1st edition feel, but with more tight black leather on our halflings" when you say "3rd edition feel."
3rd edition feels less rushed, more streamlined and has some starting background to get you on your way immediately. I didn't get that same feeling with 1st and 2nd edition. And for some reason, it seems more fun to play this time around.

[Kevin Mowery]

Originally posted by Jason Hinds
3rd edition feel?

I assume we're not talking "1st edition feel, but with more tight black leather on our halflings" when you say "3rd edition feel."

I don't know that there is a third edition feel just yet. What I thought should have been the third edition feel is sort of a "wahoo!" feeling--high adventure epic fantasy instead of still more crawling into dark holes in the ground looking for loot and tactical advantages.

[Levekius]

To me, the "1st edition feel" isn't something interesting or inspiring.

But then, Alan reminded me that there isn't just one kind of 1st edition feel. Unfortunately, it appears I was unlucky since most of the 1st ed. module I played were crappy and didn't have an once of logic.

Right after Christmas, there was a kind of boxing day at the LGS. I went with two people (who do not give a flying f*ck about reviews) and we stumbled on the two first module in the Rappan Athuk series (forgive the spelling). I immediately grabbed them like some kind of artifacts, and these two friends look at me like I just put my finger in dog poo.

I then explained to them that I had read several favorable reviews on those thingies, and they might be fun.

Them:but Martin, you almost never buy pre-made adventures
Me: I know, but am I allowed a break once in a while?

Them: the covers are fucking ugly

Me: Yeah, it's all part of the first edition feel

Them: The what???

I then explain to them what's the deal.

Gaming buddy: Is that like Tomb Of Horrors and stuff?

Me: Yes, I think that's the idea

My girlfriend: Is that like Cavern Of Chaos, the Stronghold of something, that kind of stuff?

Me: Yup

Girlfriend takes modules off my hands and puts them back on the pile of good deals: find something else, ANYTHING.

And in retrospect, they may have been right, or wrong. I don't know about Rappan , but if all they do is provide you with challenges with little justifications, I don't need them at all.

The easiest thing by far is to challenge players. Challenging them in a consistent environment, in a sensible story, etc... that's the catch. Again, I cannot comment about Rappan and Alan's post left me wondering.

Are they providing justifications? A lot, a little, not at all? Would love to hear more, Alan!

[bushfire]

Reagrding the elusive "1st Edition Feel" here is what Clark Peterson of Necromancer Games posted on ENWorld about Rappan Athuk and Necromancers philosphy about dungeon crawls:

From ENWorld
http://66.34.55.203//ubb/ultimatebb....7&t=015405&p=2

=======================
There is little over-arching "story" in Rappan Athuk, other then that it is a den of priests of Orcus with several temples within the complex.

We let DMs tell their own stories.

Let me offer this by way of analogy: we detail the death star, you make up Luke and stick a princess in there. Oh, and we give you Vader's stats too.

Why do I not provide the story? Because I trust DMs to be able to use our material to craft their own.

Here is an excerpt from the Intro to Tomb of Abysthor that explains my opinions about how to use a dungeon module:

Using A Dungeon

Dungeons are classic settings for heroic swords and sorcery adventuring. Turning your party loose in a dungeon to explore it and cleanse it of evil (and treasure) is a time-honored adventuring tradition. Certainly the Stoneheart Mountain Dungeon is loaded with evil and treasure sufficient to satisfy the lusts of any bold adventurer.

Dungeons, however, do not need to be tied to ?hack and slash? adventuring. Instead, the best use of a dungeon is as a dramatic setting for story telling. Rather than have your players simply bash in door after door looking for monsters and loot, design a purpose for the party to delve into the dungeon. Give them a quest or a goal. This gives them direction and a sense of accomplishment. It keeps their dungeon adventuring focused and keeps the tension high?there is a risk of failing to accomplish their mission.

There are a number of such story ideas for the Stoneheart Mountain Dungeon, from less to more difficult: recovering the holy tracts from the chambers beneath the shrine of Thyr, liberating a magic weapon from the stores beneath the shrine of Muir, confirming whether or not priests of Orcus have in fact defiled the entrance level of the Burial Halls, cleansing the shrines of Thyr and Muir, visiting the tomb of Alaric the Paladin and retrieving the Stone of Tircople and the Chalice of Elanir, learning rune magic from Balcoth, hunting down Dark Natasha, visiting the tomb of Flail the Great, obtaining the legendary lance of Eric the Paladin, recovering the fabled axe of blood, assaulting the temple of Orcus (this particular mission is used in the upcoming Necromancer Games module The Wrath of Orcus), visiting or destroying the Temple of the Frog, discovering the Tomb of Abysthor, searching for the chamber of Earth Blood or even destroying the Black Monolith and freeing Abysthor himself. There are appropriate tasks for parties of all alignments and levels.

Rather than just turning the characters loose in the dungeon, use these story ideas to give them a mission or goal. The first five or six of these ideas in particular make appropriate initial tasks for those wishing to use the optional rule of ?obtaining? paladinhood, detailed in the Gods Appendix.

Clark
================================

I agree with this btw. "1st Edition Feel" to me is *not* having someone else's meta-plot driving my adventures. It's providing me with a place or situation that I (and my players) can build our own stories around.


bushfire

[Methuslah]

While a lot of the early modules were simlpe hack n' slash, I can think of several excellent ones from the period. Night's Dark Terror, Rahasia, Curse of Xanathon, or Drums on Fire Mountain, for example. Of course, for each of these, there was a In Search of the Unknown, or a Tomb of Horrors. ( I know most of these are OD&D rather than 1E, but still the same period. )

I think one problem is that a lot of the early adventures were originally written for tournaments, and it really shows. In 'Journey to the Rock' ( B8 ), for example, the heroes have to travel through a wilderness to reach a small dungeon. Most of the adventure takes place in this wilderness. There are three different, totally independant routes than can be taken, each fully detailed, meaning that less than half the book will be used in the adventure.

A torunament adventure is different in many ways to a standard adventure ( if there is such a thing ), because you need a winner. Goals have to be more clearly defined, and so a long, meandering dungeon crawl is ideal.

Not that this always make a bad adventure, Journey to the Rock is one of my favourites....

Richard Tongue