I've heard people say that deprotagonization doesn't mean what it used to. I've seen it used, once and again. Somewhat stupidly, when the term first showed up, I didn't pay attention to the discussions. Now I need you guys to enlighten me - what does it all mean?
Thanks.
__________________ Jocelyn Robitaille**Immersive Roleplaying : Now can I please play with my nuts?*
"Beef is not what Jay said to Nas,
Beef is when the working folks can't find jobs." -Mos Def
Deprotagonize (Paul Czege)
To limit or devalue another person's opportunity to establish their character as a protagonist during Narrativist play. Note that this is specific to Paul's use of Protagonism strictly in the limited Narrativist context.
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Social life is essentially practical. All mysteries that mislead theory into mysticism find their rational solution in human practice and in the comprehension of this practice.
I love the way Jocelyn sees the cliff, and the warning sign, but runs right on over the edge anyway.
Ah but you see, the word gets thrown around a lot, and I have a hard time following some otherwise interesting conversations because of it. I guess since you guys are talking a lot about your body being all mangled and bloody from falling down the cliff nowadays, I figure I might as well throw myself down there and see what all the fuss is about.
__________________ Jocelyn Robitaille**Immersive Roleplaying : Now can I please play with my nuts?*
"Beef is not what Jay said to Nas,
Beef is when the working folks can't find jobs." -Mos Def
I thought it was a pretty simple idea, but then, I wasn't involved in any of those early discussions either. I guess all theory looks pretty simple and cut-and-dried before one starts arguing about it.
I thought deprotagonization of the PCs meant exactly that - something occurs in the game such that the PCs are no longer the protagonists of the story. I can think of two ways that this is most likely to happen - either the GM makes the story mostly about the villain and the villain's character development, with the villain's actions driving the story without input from the players, or else a GMPC appears who becomes the hero and driving force of the story. In either case, the PCs are reduced to viewpoint characters - we're seeing the story through their eyes, but they're not the ones making the story happen or determining where it will go.
Has "deprotagonization" gotten more complicated than that?
__________________ +1 posterless laugh point. Because apparently that's the rare kind now.
Deprotagonization refers to any of a number of circumstances or behaviours that disempower player characters from taking a strong role in the development of the game world. The term refers to the idea that the players are supposed to be the "protagonists" in the story being told in the game: deprotagonization is then any process which causes them to cease being protagonists, or cease being able to act as protagonists. Railroading, pet NPCs, and similar are all forms of deprotagonization, as is (arguably) metaplot.
Protagonist: 1. the leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work.
See, the term used to just refer to the feeling amongst players that they were no longer the "stars of the show", so to speak, but instead the GM had replaced them with his own cool NPCs, or never let them do anything in the game contrary to his vision.
Now it apparently refers to genres Kiero doesn't enjoy.
I would offer the following definition:
Deprotagonization: A condition wherein the players of the game feel their characters are not the "leading characters" of the story.
I thought it was a pretty simple idea, but then, I wasn't involved in any of those early discussions either. I guess all theory looks pretty simple and cut-and-dried before one starts arguing about it.
I thought deprotagonization of the PCs meant exactly that - something occurs in the game such that the PCs are no longer the protagonists of the story. I can think of two ways that this is most likely to happen - either the GM makes the story mostly about the villain and the villain's character development, with the villain's actions driving the story without input from the players, or else a GMPC appears who becomes the hero and driving force of the story. In either case, the PCs are reduced to viewpoint characters - we're seeing the story through their eyes, but they're not the ones making the story happen or determining where it will go.
Has "deprotagonization" gotten more complicated than that?
No, I think you got it right there. Now let us never speak of this again.
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Clone Ranger of the SCIENCE!Pack
+1 Old School Point from Rattrap2474, +1 "Exile: Escape from the Pit" from Galadrin
I thought it was a pretty simple idea, but then, I wasn't involved in any of those early discussions either. I guess all theory looks pretty simple and cut-and-dried before one starts arguing about it.
I thought deprotagonization of the PCs meant exactly that - something occurs in the game such that the PCs are no longer the protagonists of the story. I can think of two ways that this is most likely to happen - either the GM makes the story mostly about the villain and the villain's character development, with the villain's actions driving the story without input from the players, or else a GMPC appears who becomes the hero and driving force of the story. In either case, the PCs are reduced to viewpoint characters - we're seeing the story through their eyes, but they're not the ones making the story happen or determining where it will go.
Has "deprotagonization" gotten more complicated than that?
I'd say yes, because that was my assumption as well - and now I see the word in contexts where I can't figure out exactly what it means or how it's used.
__________________ Jocelyn Robitaille**Immersive Roleplaying : Now can I please play with my nuts?*
"Beef is not what Jay said to Nas,
Beef is when the working folks can't find jobs." -Mos Def
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