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  #1  
Old 10-28-2006, 12:48 AM
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Levi Levi is offline
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[Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

This is kind of a departure for me from my usual stuff, because I'm talking about something here that I see out there which isn't a big point of interest for me.

But it is for others, and I'd like to understand it.

Most of the old-school games were, going straight by the text, pretty good at being games. And they've developed, refined, and worked on their kinks - the current D&D is excellent at serving tactical play.

But I feel like something that was assumed by those games (and no, I'm not talking about the same assumption as last time out) has faded into the background - the text of games these days serves it less.

Now, I'm not talking about straight-up immersion, though it's connected to what I'm thinking about. Nor am I talking about simulation in any meaningful sense of the word; simulation has overtones that don't fit.

I'm talking about worlds to dwell in. About the journey of wonder. About meeting the 'other', and discovering what you have in common with them or with it, and what you don't. About, in some intuitive way, touching an experience outside of my normal life and thinking through something as simple as passing words across a table.

It's not something I normally seek. It sure as hell isn't "celebrating the source material" or "the right to dream"; it isn't even emulation of a really cool feel - throw those ideas away; they don't fit.

Once in a rare while, I want to be somewhere that is not the same as here, though it may be hauntingly familiar. I want to be someone that is not the same as me, though I may see myself in them, and vice versa.

Tell me how.
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:06 AM
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Stephenls Stephenls is offline
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Re: [Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

Gimme a couple of months.
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:12 AM
Uqbarian Uqbarian is offline
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Re: [Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Tell me how.
If I knew, I'd tell you!

I think you've described one of the main things I look for in gaming, but I've never really found it, so I can't help.
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:19 AM
Jim Bob Jim Bob is offline
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Re: [Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I'm talking about worlds to dwell in. About the journey of wonder. About meeting the 'other', and discovering what you have in common with them or with it, and what you don't. About, in some intuitive way, touching an experience outside of my normal life and thinking through something as simple as passing words across a table...

Once in a rare while, I want to be somewhere that is not the same as here, though it may be hauntingly familiar. I want to be someone that is not the same as me, though I may see myself in them, and vice versa.

Tell me how.
Try roleplaying.

Seriously, mate. There are a few basic things you can do in an rpg session:
  • Action/fights
  • Character personality & relationships
  • Character improvement
  • Building stuff - castles, communities, etc.
  • Destroying stuff - as above.
  • Exploring - different game world, character different to you.
I use those six things to ask gamers new to my group what sort of stuff they enjoy doing, so I can put it in the session for them. "Exploring" consistently comes out in the top three.

That's why many of us game - to explore different game worlds, and different kinds of characters, to feel ourselves in them a bit.
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:19 AM
Malachi Constant Malachi Constant is offline
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Re: [Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

I'd kinda like to hear something too.

I mean I loved Jorune as a product. The artwork, the history, all the little details were really great, cool, neato!! But when I get to playing it never meant a lot. I've always really cared more about the drama of the characters and the situations they were in than the fact that the trid nodes were quivering on my thriddle guide.

What makes those details important in a game? How do you focus on them and still keep the game interesting?

Last edited by Malachi Constant; 10-28-2006 at 01:23 AM..
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:33 AM
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droog droog is offline
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Re: [Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

You either spend years understanding somebody else's setting or years making up your own. Read extensively in related fields (eg anthropology, mythology or nanotechnology). When you know that world front, back and sideways, you can start running a game. Never expose the full depth of your knowledge (and sometimes work actively against it) – work on the iceberg principle of nine-tenths hidden. Always explain the world by showing it in action, not by giving people lectures and handouts. Keep PC knowledge subjective. Use the world itself as a giant NPC with many heads.
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:33 AM
d23 d23 is offline
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Re: [Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I'm talking about worlds to dwell in. About the journey of wonder.
That pretty much summed up why I RP - as much as the -isms fit in one way or another, it really boils down to that. I just sometimes forget.

Can a system really help create that sense of wonder? Or is it all in the setting? Somehow, neither seem right.

I wish I could help, man.
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:35 AM
Jim Bob Jim Bob is offline
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Re: [Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi Constant View Post
What makes those details important in a game? How do you focus on them and still keep the game interesting?
You make them part of the story.

For example, in my low-fantasy Saxon fantasy campaign, everyone carries a knife; these are used for everything from carving off a piece of cheese to self-defence. But they're not called "knives", they're called "seax." Having any seax at all is a mark of adulthood, but only free persons of property may bear a full seax; thralls (slaves), married women (whose property passes to their husband), and so on are limited to a "scramseax," which has a blade no longer than the span of the person's palm.

So if among a group of "thralls" your character sees someone with a seax, or if among a group of "warriors" you see someone with a scramseax, that'll tell you something important.

So, that detail of seax and scramseax just became important in the story.

No detail is gong to be of more than passing interest unless you make it part of the story. This takes a GM and players with imagination.

I honestly don't see how the setting and characters, exploring those, could not be important. Otherwise, why choose Star Wars over Warehouse: the Storemen? Why choose to play Bob the Fighter over Joe the Mage? If not enjoying those little details of difference, then what does it all matter? What's the point?
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2006, 01:47 AM
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Levi Levi is offline
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Re: [Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Try roleplaying.
That little gem doesn't help, as written.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
That's why many of us game - to explore different game worlds, and different kinds of characters, to feel ourselves in them a bit.
Closer. Details, man, details; I think that's where the devil is.
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:48 AM
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Kintara Kintara is offline
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Re: [Theory] Give me worlds to dwell in.

I think what you're talking about here is an emergent property. And when it comes, I don't think it matters if you were looking for it or desiring it, or not. It's something that happens when you create something together and feel it come alive. That's really what you're talking about: that sense that this thing you're weaving has its own life or existance.

In that sense it's not like the "agendas" you were mentioning, nor is it immersion. What it is is something that happens when things are going very right. That's my opinion, anyway.

And I think it's worth mentioning that this property isn't simply binary. It's not simply present or not present. It's present to a million different degrees in pretty much anything truly creative.

Edit: Anyway, I'll think about the "Tell me how." request some more, but that's a tall order (considering how I just described it and interpret what you're driving at).
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