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View Poll Results: What's your opinion in WW's rulebook fiction?
I like the fiction text, you ungodly roll-player 89 46.60%
Meh, It don't really bother me. 54 28.27%
I hate it, I hate it, I hate it so much!!!!!!!! 37 19.37%
Other (Please specify). 11 5.76%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 08-03-2007, 04:20 PM
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sporkpimp sporkpimp is offline
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Re: WoD mood fiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azezel View Post
Isn't that what the roleplaying game is for?
How do I know what it's for, until I read the rulebook?

What good is the rulebook if it's boring and doesn't communicate the setting well?

Quote:
I cannot argue with the subjective nature of fiction's quality, but is a rulebook really the right place for it?
Yes.

Quote:
One page out of every eight? Really.
No, not really. Because it's almost never that much. (I say almost -- Scion has a shitload of it, for example, but that's the exception and not the rule.) White Wolf, the company that is most identified with chapter fics, has one page at the beginning and end of each chapter, and then a short intro and exit for every book in their lines -- Exalted and the nWoD, and even Orpheus was that way.

-A.
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2007, 04:22 PM
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C.W.Richeson C.W.Richeson is offline
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Re: WoD mood fiction

It completely depends. Sometimes it's very enjoyable and inspirational and other times it's just sorta there.
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2007, 04:25 PM
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Re: WoD mood fiction

I don't mind the fiction if they stick it all at the end and colour code the margin so I can tell at a glance just how much of the rule book I bought is fanfic and how much is rules. What I really can't stand is a book that heavily mingles the fic with the rules, sometimes to the point where I have a hard time even finding the rules. If you're a frustrated fantasy writer, please just go write some fantasy.

That said, some books manage to pull my trigger on this and still be great, so it's not just the fact of the fic that sets me off. But so much of it is so very very bad.
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2007, 04:30 PM
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Re: WoD mood fiction

Sporkpimp - the Core nWoD book is almost exactly 1/8th mood-fiction.

But no-one has yet answerred my question:

Why is it in the rulebooks?

It seems simple to me, rulebooks here, novels here and never the two shall meet.

Why mood fiction in the rulebooks?
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2007, 04:38 PM
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Re: WoD mood fiction

I skip most of it, but I loved the stuff NWoD core book. It actually made more interested in reading more horror, like Lovecraft.
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2007, 04:42 PM
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Re: WoD mood fiction

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Originally Posted by Azezel View Post
For example, in the Core nWoD (Blue) book, there are 28 full pages of this fiction, in a 222 page book. That's a hair under one eighth of the entire thing. more if you count all the one-off paragraphs that accompany every skill and attribute section, plus sundry other snatches.

I hate it, I loath it with a passion. The quality in the core book never rises above the toe-curlingly embarrising to read. It is, in my view, utterly without merit, it is worse than worthless, its presence makes the book worse.
You know, I thought I was alone in disliking the intro fiction to the core nWoD rulebook. It didn't help that it ended on the astronauts and angels on the moon story, which I found mind numbingly agonizing to read.

I also quickly shelved my new Promethean book after finishing the intro fiction, but thankfully I picked it up months later to read the mechanics and realize that the bit I didn't like about the game was contained to that story.

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Originally Posted by Azezel View Post
Why must I pay for this, when all I want are the rules to play a game?
Because people other than you like it and a good story adds a lot of value to a book if it resonates with you. Unfortunately, that's why I learned quickly to skip the intro and chapter fiction for most WW books. Different strokes and all that, but like Clint said, a man has to know his limitations...
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  #17  
Old 08-03-2007, 04:48 PM
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Re: WoD mood fiction

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Originally Posted by Azezel View Post

I hate it, I loath it with a passion. The quality in the core book never rises above the toe-curlingly embarrising to read. It is, in my view, utterly without merit, it is worse than worthless, its presence makes the book worse.

I paid £11 for my book, thus I paid, I believe, £1.37 for the fiction I so loath.

All of my other WoD books are afflicted with this sickness too, I have to imagine that all of the fiction is as bad as the core book, though, naturally, I have not read it.

I have to ask, why is it there? Why did anyone think, how could anyone think that this sort of thing belongs in a role-playing game rulebook, instead of,say, the 'Rejected' pile on a publisher's desk?

Why was it included? I really want to know? Why must I pay for this, when all I want are the rules to play a game?

I really did not intend this post to be a rant, but the whole subject just fills me with bile.

Jesus, last time I bought a novel it didn't have 28 pages of dice mechanics lurking about, taking up space.
while you hate it I LOVE it, LOVE it, LOVE it!!!
fiction helps to put dry rules text into fun context. Without fiction it reads like a boring rules manual (like AD&D). For me its also helps to set the tone, mood and feeling of the book in question. Plus I love reading fiction, urban fantasy, horror and fantasy in general. To me its a big bonus to have fiction in a gaming book. Two books in ONE!!!



And to all the WW folks reading this, keep the awesome fiction comming. I trust the original poster to be in the very slim minority.
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  #18  
Old 08-03-2007, 04:50 PM
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Re: WoD mood fiction

I think you question has been answered several times already.

Rulebooks are boring.

And worse RPG rulebooks require a whole lot more rules than a standard boardgame. You can literally have 150 pages of rules to work through.

And a core rulebook is meant to be the flagship of a game. It usually has to encompass all the rules to get you started, but also flesh out the background of the gameworld and make an attempt to sell the sort of games you will play.

Some RPGs have the benefit of being a licensed property, where the assumption is that the reader knows about the world and the core concepts of the world. Other RPGs are not, and the assumptions have to be explained somehow. Fiction or comic books or whatever is one way of achieving this.

The Player's Handbook is a big fuck-off book of rules. It's sitting right beside me on the shelf, and I cannot read the damn thing. It's got horrible fonts, weird backgrounds and absolutely nothing to draw me into it. Some people love that, but some people hate it. But the player's handbook assumes that most readers have an idea as to what they are getting into. The new World of Darkness core book makes no such assumption.

Gavin
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  #19  
Old 08-03-2007, 04:54 PM
MoogleEmpMog MoogleEmpMog is offline
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Re: WoD mood fiction

Fiction is a HUGE plus to me. I would MUCH rather read even poorly executed fiction than a non-narrative description of a setting's themes or typical storylines or appearance or the sorts of characters one is expected to play.

Some measure of non-narrative flavor text is probably necessary for an RPG, since only a select few top-flight writers can convincingly describe a setting in fiction without a ton of extraneous words, but merciful Principle, keep them to a minimum and give me something that's at least supposed to be entertaining.

Caveat: the fiction has to actually tell me what kind of themes, plots, setting and characters I can expect from the game. If what's in the fiction doesn't gel at all with what's in the rules, we have a serious problem.
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  #20  
Old 08-03-2007, 05:01 PM
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Re: WoD mood fiction

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Originally Posted by Harmast View Post
It's in there because WW started with it and it's become a defining part of their brand. Given that others have copied it (less so now than 15 years ago) I'd say despite your personal dislike it's popular with their core audience.

Personally, I look at it as another kind of flavor text.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azezel View Post
But no-one has yet answerred my question:

Why is it in the rulebooks?

It seems simple to me, rulebooks here, novels here and never the two shall meet.

Why mood fiction in the rulebooks?
Apparently you missed my answer the first time so it is in bold:

1. It's another form of flavor text...in addition to a text book type explanation they provide fictional snippets to help convey information about the setting and various inhabitants. Fiction can be used to convey information.

2. With WW it has become a defining characteristic of their brand such that no including it would disappoint a significant section of their fan base (at least, that would be a distinct possibility).
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