- First, you have to get by the point. Let's not forget how hard this is. Go to half sword (one hand halfway up the blade) and parry behind the spear head while slip stepping forward.
- Now, the spearman must either stay in a range where he has no hope of killing you, go to a sidearm, or increase range. Staying and fighting with the haft is a mug's game, you need to maim or kill people who want to take your life when you're in the danger zone. Give point to force him to defend and step in.
- Arm bar the right arm of your opponent, thrust from stoccatta.
- Dead spearman.
And I can give you a similar set of things a spearman can do to win instead. I know of various ways a swordsman can get behind a spearhead, and the only way a spearman can't attack right back in that reduced range is when he's carrying a far longer spear then is of use in a 1-on-1 fight.
As to the "unless he uses the spear like a bo-staff" comment that came up earlier: Well duh? What's to stop a spearman using the spear like a bo-staff? It's an intergeral part of spearfighting. The only people who wouldn't do this are those who've never got any more training then "pointy part that way". Spears are a complete weapon, not just a pointy tip.
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My point was, Attila, that in Western culture/warfare, the spear isn't used in like a bo-staff. It is generally was given to a "line" where they, indeed were told to poke with the pointy end. The spear as a "complete" weapon as you put it, is something that Eastern martial arts have shown, but definitely not in western military practices (western being European, as I have no history of African warfare). My comment was sometime after people were talking about "western" uses of the spear and combat. If you have information/sources that cite differently for Western warfare, I would love to read them. I have studied medieval history in a university setting for 8 years and have never seen any proof of spears being used as they have in the east.
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Re: Why are swords cool?
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Originally Posted by Attila ze Hun
As to the "unless he uses the spear like a bo-staff" comment that came up earlier: Well duh? What's to stop a spearman using the spear like a bo-staff? It's an intergeral part of spearfighting. The only people who wouldn't do this are those who've never got any more training then "pointy part that way". Spears are a complete weapon, not just a pointy tip.
Actually, no. Spearfighting is a highly specialized art, just like swordfighting. What makes a spear superior, is it's ability to be used with minimal training and it's ease of use as a ranged weapon.
Throwing a sword isn't quite as effective. All you need to get a good crew of spearmen is to give them all point sticks and tell them go poke people in unison. Not as hard as training someone on how to use the ENTIRE weapon. Just like sword mastery, but unlike the spear, the sword is a weapon for experts.
And that, to me, is what makes a sword 'cool'. Anyone who uses a blade as a primary weapons is most likely a badass able to outfight, out maneuver and otherwise out do the average shmoe with a 'lesser' weapon like an axe, or a knife. Which those two are also tools, and were first, while being weapons second.
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My point was, Attila, that in Western culture/warfare, the spear isn't used in like a bo-staff. It is generally was given to a "line" where they, indeed were told to poke with the pointy end. The spear as a "complete" weapon as you put it, is something that Eastern martial arts have shown, but definitely not in western military practices (western being European, as I have no history of African warfare).
Is Sparta in Europe?
Quote:
My comment was sometime after people were talking about "western" uses of the spear and combat. If you have information/sources that cite differently for Western warfare, I would love to read them. I have studied medieval history in a university setting for 8 years and have never seen any proof of spears being used as they have in the east.
The ancient Greeks, from what I have learned, were proficient with the spear as a "complete" weapon. I'll defer to the historians if there is another take on this, though...
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I always preferred a mace or a morning-star. Partly because of the names, but also because the mace was the first weapon designed by a human to kill another human. Not to hunt for food, just to kill people who p*** you off.
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Okay, he was originally talking about handguns. But it's the same concept.
-G.
Actually, in a recent discussion on this subject, I noted that swords are the ancient answer to handguns.
In nost reasonable battlefield conditions, the spear (and the rifle), used in formation, tend to win. while the sword (and the handgun) are secindary weapons, if they show up at all.
But in duels between heroes (Cuchulainn and Ferdad or Chow Yun Fat and John Woo, take your pick) the secondary weapons tend to take precedence, probably because they're more useful in those situations.
Or it could be that trouncing one's enemies with a backup weapon displays the hero's skill. In any rational world, four mooks with assault rifles (or spears) will utterly end one with two pistols (or swords), so if he wins regardless, he must be badass.
Just a little thought.
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Maedrhos- I have studied ancient greece and Sparta (the latter not very much admittedly), but from what I can understand, there is nothing saying they were used in anything besides "phalanx" formations. The sword was used for when the lines broke. Again, I say, if you can cite sources stating I am wrong, I will concede the point, but I don't think you will find a legitimate source saying anything contrary to what I wrote.
Re: Why are swords cool?
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